We watch the streamers exploit layering.
Blizzard can choose to refute one particular exaggeration or fraudulent claim, but they cannot make us believe layering is not a problem.
We are seeing it with our own eyes.
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Donât confuse problem with exploit. Words really do have meanings.
Yeah, like the word âexploitableâ that is readily visible in their post. Perhaps youâre vested in your own small personal interpretation for a specific reason, howeverâŚ
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wow amazing response, i can tell from ur response that you actually read what was posted and tried to address everything that you could, most companies ive dealt with just throw some type of generic answer half the time that seems alrdy pre-written, you guys on the blizzard team are amazing!! +1 for you pazorax
How can anyone possibly argue that layer-hopping to farm mats, literally teleporting to parallel zones, is what the developers or anyone for that matter, intends for Classic WoW? If so, then Classic is doomed.
Layer hopping is intended to overcome zone population issues, not farm nodes by teleporting around using a 3rd party addon.
This is a textbook exploit. Argue all you want layer-hoppers, you will be suspended.
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Letâs look at those words. They agree that they need to add a delay. Why would they agree? Who are the agreeing with? Are they agreeing with the people saying layer hopping is fine? Or are they agreeing with the people saying layer hopping is an exploit and needs to be fixed? Judging by the words used that indicates they agree a delay needs to be added, it seems obvious they agree with the latter; the people saying layering is an exploit. Does adding a delay make layer hopping easier or more difficult? Clearly, adding a delay makes layer hopping more difficult. So again, it shows they do not lie what is happening.
You made it a point to say that words mean something. Letâs look at his exact wording.
They want to âfurther restrain layering from being exploitableâ thatâs not my words, but Blizzâ. EXPLOIT. Layer hopping outside of simply trying to group with people on different layers is indeed an exploit.
Your position lacks any coherent logic. If Blizzard condones the behavior of layer hopping, then why didnât they advertise this as a feature of it? Theyâve states exactly why layering is needed and itâs purpose. It isnât so you can duck out of PvP or farm more nodes than otherwise possible.
IF THEY BELIEVE LAYER HOPPING IS FINE, WHY ARE THEY GOING TO CHANGE IT TO MAKE IT HARDER TO DO SO???
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People use all kinds of twisted logic to make themselves feel better. People donât want to think they are lowlife scumbags while at the same time wanting to act like lowlife scumbags. They want the benefit without the guilt and shame. Many a pretzels are made of people trying to accomplish this.
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My first reply in this thread was directed at you asking Blizz to confirm that layer hopping is an exploit and bannable offense.
I believe it is clear from Pazâs reply they do not consider it to be a bannable offense as they have clearly seen the results and do not consider them to violate their TOU.
I did read the line you quoted but also noted the word restrain. One of the meanings of that word is to âkeep within limitsâ. If you read everything Paz wrote it sure seems like he is saying that Blizzâs stance is there are limits to the use of layering and they are keeping an eye on it to ensure those uses do not exceed their intended limits. This further squashes the notion of banning people as it pretty clearly says they have not exceeded those limits yet.
To be clear, I have not tried to use this as should be obvious by my level. I am slowly plinking away at leveling just as I did in Vanilla. I am one that tends to reroll or take a break after hitting level cap as I have little interest in end-game activities. This is probably the only activity I actually enjoy the journey rather than getting to the destination as quickly as possible. So I am not defending or benefiting from this at all. I am just pointing out that a lot of people seem to be applying their own positions on this issue as if it is the officially sanctioned interpretation. My point is to read what Blizz says and you can rather easily see their stance, the fact it does not jive with many here changes nothing.
Edit: Sorry for late changes, I did not at first notice you were the one I was replying to initially. I cleaned up that very first part of my response.
I didnât say that Blizz believes itâs bannable. But they did indicate that it was an exploit. And yes, they do want to ârestrainâ the usage of layering. Appropriate usage of layering is to group with people on a different layer. So layer hopping is a way of getting over the barrier to grouping that layering presents. It was not intended to increase farming yields or escape PvP. They did not say that they âcouldâ restrain it, but that they are working to currently. That indicates that there is indeed a kind of layer usage they consider inappropriate happening now at this point in time that would require them to further restrain. As they said, they agree they need to add a delay. The only thing that could be aimed at are people currently layer hopping frequently. Since people rarely hop from layer to layer frequently in the course of normal quest/dungeon grouping, the only logical behavior that this fix could be point at curbing would be those who make use of frequent hopping. And further, the activities that make use of frequent layer hopping are indeed farming/grinding, and to a lesser extend constant fleeing from world PvP.
Their post is not just stating that they are monitoring for some type of behavior that they donât like, but that it already exists and they are currently working to stop it.
My post asking them to be explicit is because I can see what they are saying, but most will gloss over them. Their post was more about assuaging fears of extreme exploits. But they also indicated they were going to be fine tuning layering to make layer hopping more difficult. That shows they want to curb it. People wonât pay attention unless you hold their hands on it. So I wanted them to hold some hands because people are already saying this means Blizz thinks layer hopping is fine. Thatâs not what they said, but so many people are abusing it at this point that theyâd have to ban half the player base and I donât think they want to go from maximum hype to maximum butthurt. Seems like not the best business decision and no way they would do it. I wanted the most prolific abusers like some of the streamers banned, but they might not want that backlash either. So all I wanted was for them to say in clear terms what their stance was. It was evident in the content of the post, but they were loathe to actually just say it in simple terms. Now I have to dissect a single Blue post for people to show them the intent, and itâs tiring.
If they thought it was fine, they wouldnât be changing anything. Since they are changing it, they arenât fine with it currently.
lol what?
What is it that I may have âmisreadâ in this post exactly?
Iâd say âpics or it didnât happenâ.
I can sum this up fairly easily, which has been my point all along. Blizz does not consider anything that has happened to date worthy of a ban. They do acknowledge that layering isnât working as they had originally desired and will implement some changes.
That is it in a nutshell, anything else is people adding their own feelings where they do not belong. Their silence on repercussions is, like it or not, tacit acknowledgement that no action will be taken against those that have, and still are, using layers other than as intended. Essentially, they have implied it is an engineering issue for them to solve and nothing more.
Let me quote for you my entire post.
I did not ask them to say that itâs ban worthy. If they call it an exploit, then itâs agains the TOS. I wanted them to word it strongly to get that point across because other people wouldnât easily make that connection.
Although Iâd like to see bans, there is absolutely no way they are going to ban everyone who has exploited this. Itâs too many people at this point. Itâs one of those things where it is a TOS violation and Blizz themselves indicate that it is an exploit and something they are going to fix, but I donât think weâll be seeing bans based on their post. Although, if they wanted to hold their policy, they would be justified in banning everyone who used it, because it is indeed an exploit meant to gain an advantage over other players and that is cheating.
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I donât think you do. Each layer is an instance of the game world. There are essentially two âgame worldsâ in WoW-- Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms. Each instance contains a maximum number of players. Each set of layers (from both pools) belongs to a given realm. 15,000 people could be playing concurrently in EK, but with a 3k (estimation) cap on each layer, thereâd be 5 layers (probably more actually) with 3,000 players in each. It would not feel like there were 15,000 active players, it would feel like there were 3,000 active players. One fifth of the true amount.
You replied to the blue who said the realms have a single digit number of layers, with most being a low single digit number, yet you confuse this with the world feeling empty?
Each layer is supposed to in effect be an entire server worth of concurrently logged in players. Layers just allow for multiple copies to exist, so that when the hype dies down, they can collapse the number of layers down to 1, with the hope that at that point you will have a full server of active players.
What about this process led you to think the servers are empty?
You also are not listing the variables that could lead to you thinking the server is empty. Do you play during off hours? Are you leveling way faster than other people, so you are in zones that most people havenât got to yet?
My experience is that the game world is full of people most everywhere I go. But, some zones had fewer people. Westfall has tons of people, but fewer in Loch Modan.
Proclaiming your server is empty, without any detail what when and where you are, and attributing it to layers is silly.
Also silly if you think that you should be in a server with a single layer populated by 15,000 people. Thatâs not how layers work.
Dude, reading comprehension please. I never said layers have 15k people. I said there could be 15k people in EK, which would spread out over 5 or so EK layers. Each LAYER would have 3k.
If the low population realms have âlow single digitâ layers, that ostensibly means the largest full servers would likely have medium to high single digit layers. IE, 5-9.
I never said they were empty. That was your own reading comprehension fail. I said they feel empty. When you sit in a queue for hours and expect to find a similarly huge number of players, but donât (thanks to layering), the effect is jarring.
Nobody said that. Youâre either propping up straw mans because you donât have anything better to say, or you donât understand what is being said and/or how layering works. Iâll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume the latter.
'Nuff said.
Actually, as mentioned earlier in this thread, it didnât happen even with the pics. 
This is what needs to happen:
Stopped reading there as absolutely none of that is going to happen. It doesnât matter if I think it should, it just is so far from the realm of possibility as to be a complete waste of time to read past that delusional fantasy.
Iâm sorry you exist in such a way that allows you to justify to yourself that learning and enrichment is off the table.
For those of us who have integrity and a sense of morality, we will continue to charter towards the right thing being done, and in this case, it is to expose exploiters that are ruining the game.