This was so well written deserves more likes. Especially the beta comments
I’m not sure you understand how layers work
Appreciated, but forum rules say that well written and non-trolling posts get ignored. That and this thread has been a bit of a hotbed.
We really need a sticky with an official response soon. The blue response in this thread is great, but I feel that it will get buried at some point.
Meh, maybe that’s what they’re hoping for. Speculating obviously, no way to tell.
**Another popular theory is that you can determine your current layer by doing a /who in a capital city, and comparing the results against the /who your friend does. That doesn’t work because /who returns results from the entire realm, not just from your layer, and if the result set is too large it truncates the results before sorting them. This means every player gets different results, but those differences in result set have nothing to do with which layer you’re on. This has led some people to claim that they’ve discovered dozens of layers per realm, but that claim is completely false.**
NOT TRUE these are lies.
if you /who from chat it shows people in your layer. you do the same /who in (o) it shows everyone as you can see theres more lvl 36-42 in Dustwallow then my /who from chat makes. BLizzard REMOVE layering.
Try it for yourself
enter > type /who into chat
then press O and try looking in your zone it shows more players or different players. LMAO
couldn’t add my photos but try yourself.
Except that Blizzard has been proven incorrect and misunderstanding how easy it is to detect/swap layers here:
Still exploiting is the act of using something not as intended for personal gain and has been done with layering and dungeon grinds where are the suspensions and bans and relosding ui changes layer so its super easy to exploit
You seem to be missing their stance. They have acknowledged the issue and said they will monitor it and make changes if they deem them necessary. What else do you need to understand this means they do not view it as either an exploit or a violation? He even said “use” of layers, not “exploit” of layers. Words have meaning and Paz was very clear on their stance if you paid attention to those he used.
We watch the streamers exploit layering.
Blizzard can choose to refute one particular exaggeration or fraudulent claim, but they cannot make us believe layering is not a problem.
We are seeing it with our own eyes.
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Don’t confuse problem with exploit. Words really do have meanings.
Yeah, like the word “exploitable” that is readily visible in their post. Perhaps you’re vested in your own small personal interpretation for a specific reason, however…
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wow amazing response, i can tell from ur response that you actually read what was posted and tried to address everything that you could, most companies ive dealt with just throw some type of generic answer half the time that seems alrdy pre-written, you guys on the blizzard team are amazing!! +1 for you pazorax
How can anyone possibly argue that layer-hopping to farm mats, literally teleporting to parallel zones, is what the developers or anyone for that matter, intends for Classic WoW? If so, then Classic is doomed.
Layer hopping is intended to overcome zone population issues, not farm nodes by teleporting around using a 3rd party addon.
This is a textbook exploit. Argue all you want layer-hoppers, you will be suspended.
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Let’s look at those words. They agree that they need to add a delay. Why would they agree? Who are the agreeing with? Are they agreeing with the people saying layer hopping is fine? Or are they agreeing with the people saying layer hopping is an exploit and needs to be fixed? Judging by the words used that indicates they agree a delay needs to be added, it seems obvious they agree with the latter; the people saying layering is an exploit. Does adding a delay make layer hopping easier or more difficult? Clearly, adding a delay makes layer hopping more difficult. So again, it shows they do not lie what is happening.
You made it a point to say that words mean something. Let’s look at his exact wording.
They want to “further restrain layering from being exploitable” that’s not my words, but Blizz’. EXPLOIT. Layer hopping outside of simply trying to group with people on different layers is indeed an exploit.
Your position lacks any coherent logic. If Blizzard condones the behavior of layer hopping, then why didn’t they advertise this as a feature of it? They’ve states exactly why layering is needed and it’s purpose. It isn’t so you can duck out of PvP or farm more nodes than otherwise possible.
IF THEY BELIEVE LAYER HOPPING IS FINE, WHY ARE THEY GOING TO CHANGE IT TO MAKE IT HARDER TO DO SO???
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People use all kinds of twisted logic to make themselves feel better. People don’t want to think they are lowlife scumbags while at the same time wanting to act like lowlife scumbags. They want the benefit without the guilt and shame. Many a pretzels are made of people trying to accomplish this.
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My first reply in this thread was directed at you asking Blizz to confirm that layer hopping is an exploit and bannable offense.
I believe it is clear from Paz’s reply they do not consider it to be a bannable offense as they have clearly seen the results and do not consider them to violate their TOU.
I did read the line you quoted but also noted the word restrain. One of the meanings of that word is to “keep within limits”. If you read everything Paz wrote it sure seems like he is saying that Blizz’s stance is there are limits to the use of layering and they are keeping an eye on it to ensure those uses do not exceed their intended limits. This further squashes the notion of banning people as it pretty clearly says they have not exceeded those limits yet.
To be clear, I have not tried to use this as should be obvious by my level. I am slowly plinking away at leveling just as I did in Vanilla. I am one that tends to reroll or take a break after hitting level cap as I have little interest in end-game activities. This is probably the only activity I actually enjoy the journey rather than getting to the destination as quickly as possible. So I am not defending or benefiting from this at all. I am just pointing out that a lot of people seem to be applying their own positions on this issue as if it is the officially sanctioned interpretation. My point is to read what Blizz says and you can rather easily see their stance, the fact it does not jive with many here changes nothing.
Edit: Sorry for late changes, I did not at first notice you were the one I was replying to initially. I cleaned up that very first part of my response.
I didn’t say that Blizz believes it’s bannable. But they did indicate that it was an exploit. And yes, they do want to “restrain” the usage of layering. Appropriate usage of layering is to group with people on a different layer. So layer hopping is a way of getting over the barrier to grouping that layering presents. It was not intended to increase farming yields or escape PvP. They did not say that they “could” restrain it, but that they are working to currently. That indicates that there is indeed a kind of layer usage they consider inappropriate happening now at this point in time that would require them to further restrain. As they said, they agree they need to add a delay. The only thing that could be aimed at are people currently layer hopping frequently. Since people rarely hop from layer to layer frequently in the course of normal quest/dungeon grouping, the only logical behavior that this fix could be point at curbing would be those who make use of frequent hopping. And further, the activities that make use of frequent layer hopping are indeed farming/grinding, and to a lesser extend constant fleeing from world PvP.
Their post is not just stating that they are monitoring for some type of behavior that they don’t like, but that it already exists and they are currently working to stop it.
My post asking them to be explicit is because I can see what they are saying, but most will gloss over them. Their post was more about assuaging fears of extreme exploits. But they also indicated they were going to be fine tuning layering to make layer hopping more difficult. That shows they want to curb it. People won’t pay attention unless you hold their hands on it. So I wanted them to hold some hands because people are already saying this means Blizz thinks layer hopping is fine. That’s not what they said, but so many people are abusing it at this point that they’d have to ban half the player base and I don’t think they want to go from maximum hype to maximum butthurt. Seems like not the best business decision and no way they would do it. I wanted the most prolific abusers like some of the streamers banned, but they might not want that backlash either. So all I wanted was for them to say in clear terms what their stance was. It was evident in the content of the post, but they were loathe to actually just say it in simple terms. Now I have to dissect a single Blue post for people to show them the intent, and it’s tiring.
If they thought it was fine, they wouldn’t be changing anything. Since they are changing it, they aren’t fine with it currently.
lol what?
What is it that I may have “misread” in this post exactly?
I’d say “pics or it didn’t happen”.
I can sum this up fairly easily, which has been my point all along. Blizz does not consider anything that has happened to date worthy of a ban. They do acknowledge that layering isn’t working as they had originally desired and will implement some changes.
That is it in a nutshell, anything else is people adding their own feelings where they do not belong. Their silence on repercussions is, like it or not, tacit acknowledgement that no action will be taken against those that have, and still are, using layers other than as intended. Essentially, they have implied it is an engineering issue for them to solve and nothing more.