Large Scale Premades

In the beginning of WOW bgs had instance #s and you could queue up with ALL your friends for Alterac Valley. Then Blizzard changed it to 5 man parties. We ALL figured out how to sync queue and get 40 man premades into Alterac Valley and other epic bgs. With the help of Oqueue, LFG’s predecessor add on, both factions ran constant 40 man premades in Ashran and Alterac Valley all through WOD. Then Legion dropped and PVP became boring, frustrating and a huge drop in players in the game generally. Yes, recently there have been improvements to PVP in retail. However, BETTER IMPROVEMENTS have been made in TBC Classic: Blizzard allows those guys to queue up as full 40 man premades. When will Blizzard finally give Retail what we have been begging for going on 17 years now: full premade queuing ability for ALL battlegrounds.

There is a lot of excitement about 9.2 on the horizon. If we don’t get the ability to queue as a full 40 man, just as the Alliance are still able to do with their 1-3 minute queues, I, personally, will be as disappointed in Blizzard/Activision as I have ever been. After 17 years PVP deserves some REAL love from Blizzard. Nine tiers of gearing ain’t it folks.

3 Likes

The ability to queue as premades in BGs in retail would be epic. Bring it on blizz. <3

1 Like

I did a lot of premades in wod in Ashran. We used no addons.

The only reasonable way to permit this would be full premades on both sides. Otherwise you’re just going to gut what’s left of casual PvP and eliminate all the players who queue solo. And wanting to run a 40 man premade against 40 solo pugs is, to say the least, unsporting.

5 Likes

I think you’re forgetting something.

Blizzard allows them to queue up as 40 man premades, but the game is vastly different than retail WoW (Rated Battlegrounds aren’t a thing in TBCC, it was introduced in Cata) not to mention the system they use try to actively place premades against premades. (it will not place a full 40 man premade against a random pug, or atleast, it will actively try not to and will at the very least put them up against other smaller groups of premades)

Personally, I’m against full 40 man premades in current retail unless they followed the exp off ruleset (in its own bracket essentially, will not queue against pugs and will only match you against another 40man premade or two 20 man premades)

Retail and TBCC are two completely different and separate games. There are reasons why it’s allowed in one and not the other.

2 Likes

Of course on both sides! When Blizz announced it in TBC Classic they made the disclaimer that every effort would be to pit premade against premade but solo queues would have no assurances they would not be in or against a premade. Sets expectations for all. Wouldn’t have it any other way. If enough people force this issue maybe it will come to Retail. Why they would give it to Classic and not Retail is beyond me. OQueue was how the PVP Community got together for Rated play prior to LFG.

Streamlining premades by allowing 40 people to queue at once would be a good thing, but certain adjustments would have to be made.

First, let me go over the positives.

It would prevent the phenomenon where premades would feel the need to “drop queue” if not everyone pops. I don’t do this personally with SoD, but other epic BG communities, both Horde and Alliance, do this when only 1-2 of their groups pop.

The problem with dropping queues is that it screws over the remaining people in the BG they would’ve joined, as several BGs have started with one side being only half-full as a result. The limitation of 5-person parties does NOT deter larger premades from forming, but it does cause collateral damage to the rest of the queue system. Allowing full raids would get rid of this damage.

Secondly, it would allow the system to “identify” premades better. Currently, the system “tries” to put premades with premades, but it counts “couple of people queuing with friends” as the SAME as the premades done by communities. If 6+ people queued together, they would be more easily “separated” from the folks just queuing with friends.

The ideal system is “partial premade + some solo queuers vs. partial premade + some solo queuers”

There is one major adjustment that has to be taken into consideration.

This is because while AV, IOC, and Wintergrasp are 40-man BGs, Ashran is only a 35-man BG.
To keep the queue system “random,” either Ashran must be made into a 40-man BG, or the limitation of how large a premade could be should be 35 people, not 40. (Otherwise a premade could effectively blacklist Ashran.)

3 Likes

The battlegrounds themselves are not that much different. I’ve played WOW since it dropped in Vanilla and PVP from the moment my character hit level 10. The 40 man premade would not make any significant difference.

I’m all for it.

It’s not the battlegrounds I’m talking about. I’m not talking about the differences in the battlegrounds specifically.

I’m talking about the PvP in general. TBCC doesn’t have Rated Battlegrounds which is another factor why they’re allowing premades in TBCC. One could use the argument, “I just want to play with my friends in a battleground” for TBCC and it’d be a legitimate argument.

That argument really can’t be made for retail because you can already queue in a premade, it’s called Rated Battlegrounds.

Sure, they don’t have a 40v40 rated BG setting, but that’d be really hectic. I’m not going to advocate against it though, or for it. If you want rated 40v40s go ahead, advocate for it.

1 Like

I fully expect that full premades would always be placed against full solo pugs. That’s how they think. You will be gifted with an easy farm for playing the game right by forming groups and solo pugs will be punished for queuing and quit.

Players weren’t supposed to be circumventing in-game restrictions so they could roflstomp pugs and farm HKs.

In the past, some large premades would even send in spies to check if the other team was also a large premade. If so, they’d drop their queues and requeue.

If the matchmaking isn’t strict, some large premades will just continue finding ways to exploit the system so they can gy farm pugs.

I doubt solo queued pugs on Retail will force this issue. They don’t enjoy going against large premades.

1 Like

I want rated 40v40 but itd be impossible since the game is on life support .

1 Like

Large premades have a history of exploiting the system to quickly gain various rewards.

If Blizzard added rated 40v40s, there probably wouldn’t be very many 40-man teams queuing up at any given time. Some large premade communities would exploit this and abuse the system, especially when superior PvP gear rewards are tied to conquest points and rating. They could gear out their members in a short amount of time.

Furthermore, these players would still continue circumventing in-game restrictions to bring their large premades into unrated bgs. The pug roflstomping would be even worse with the additional gear from rated PvP.

1 Like

I would absolutely love it. I totally support 40 v 40 premades.

Blizzard initially allowed 40-man premades to queue for Ashran, but then they saw what happened. It was a bad thing.

Games ended up being 40-man premades roflstomping pugs for hours on end. If a 40-man premade faced another large premade, the losing premade would quickly leave the game and join another instance to face pugs.

The 5-person limitation makes it clear what Blizzard wants the maximum size of premades to be. Most premades respect that size limitation and they don’t try to circumvent it. So, it does deter the formation of larger premades.

Blizzard doesn’t want bgs to turn into join a large premade or get roflstomped by one.

Even if Blizzard allowed 40-man raids, you’d still have large premades continuing the same “drop queue” damage to the queue system.

Some large premades aren’t interested in facing other large premades. They just want to roflstomp pugs. If they need to keep syncing queues with 5-man premades (and dropping queues) so they can face pugs, they’ll continue doing that.

Blizzard can go through the logs right now and identify all the players likely participating in large premades. Their queuing behavior is very obvious. They keep queuing at the same moment, dropping queues, and ending up together in the same bgs. Blizzard just hasn’t bothered putting in the effort.

Don’t forget to go over the negatives.

:slight_smile:

Imagine joining a premade, just to avoid other premades anyway lol.
Then what’s the point of joining a premade, if you’re gonna dip the second things get tough anyway?

From my experience, that’s only been the case with Horde PVP communities; I’ve yet to see an Alliance community that actually /afk’s out from a good fight.

The negatives are…premades will dodge each other? That happens already, like you said.

1 Like

I know right?

But, that’s what happened. Some players just want easy wins/rewards. They’re not looking for competition. They want an overwhelming advantage against the other team. They enjoy spending hours at the gy spamming AOEs on pugs.

I’m guessing the 5-person limit is somewhat annoying for players who circumvent the current system. They want to make it easier for their large premade to get into the same bg. Without additional changes to the matchmaking system, allowing full raid queuing is likely to lead to more frequent lopsided games with large premades roflstomping pugs.

It’s very evident in the premades who drop queues when not everyone gets the same pop.

Negatives would be it becomes mandatory to queue with a premade if you’re going to do epic battlegrounds, which is what people want to avoid.

Queueing solo or with a small party of 5 and going against a full 40man premade vs a pug is a loss. I’m not saying it isn’t possible for the pug to win, but the premade has the clear advantage. They’re able to choose how many healers will be in the BG, how many tanks, what DPS classes/specs will be in the BG best suited for large fights, etc.

Sure, allow premades to queue, but have them follow the exp off ruleset in that they will ONLY be fighting against other 40man premades.

2 Likes

They made the que limit of a party of 5 for BGs for a reason.

This happens now and the people doing it don’t have a problem doing it lol. Unsporting is is an understatement. When there were no RBGs I had no issue with it because it was kind of a competitive way of doing BGs. But now there is a way to do competitive BGs so if premades are going to be a thing in casual BGs it for sure has to be premade vs premade.

Yikes. If for sure happens on both sides.

Yep if people want full 40 man premades then run them against other 40 man premades. Or do wargames which allow you to do 40 v 40.