Like the title says, I continue to check MMOChampion hoping to see a large buff to DS, a revived cleave judgment to address our spec’s lack of cleave damage or a change to address our mobility, but day after day I see nothing. Anyone else getting that feeling we will receive little but the slight buff to DS and a helpful azerite trait?
3 Likes
Cleave Judgement is not necessary, I would prefer they reduced the cooldown to 6 seconds to facilitate consistent HP generation while out of range. Give Crusader Strike the cleave and we'll be good.
1 Like
Ret isn’t a cleave spec currently and it won’t be a cleave spec in the near future either. The devs have already said so.
The lack of cleave damage is by design.
The lack of cleave damage is by design.
10/28/2018 02:36 PMPosted by OxuruRet isn’t a cleave spec currently and it won’t be a cleave spec in the near future either. The devs have already said so.
The lack of cleave damage is by design.
I dont disagree with this, nor do I think it normally ever should be, but this expansion is ALL trash mobs and ret is worthless but dev design. That isnt enjoyable
1 Like
10/28/2018 07:24 PMPosted by WorldwarbornI dont disagree with this, nor do I think it normally ever should be, but this expansion is ALL trash mobs and ret is worthless but dev design.
So was the large majority of Legion, and back then we had a lot of Cleave dps tools/top end cleave dps in both raids and M+. A lot of the casual crowd on these forums would cry that all we had was cleave and mid pack ST and envied all the ST dps specs for M+ and claimed that ret wasn't brought because only ST dmg for bosses mattered.
People will pine for whatever they don't have, its just how things are.
1 Like
In addition to what's been said about ret not having cleave and how it's dumb, it's not exactly like we're stellar ST either. We currently have no niche (being mediocre at all of it) while other specs have no niche (being strong at all of it).
10/28/2018 02:36 PMPosted by OxuruRet isn’t a cleave spec currently and it won’t be a cleave spec in the near future either. The devs have already said so.
The lack of cleave damage is by design.
Which is fine if we had the ST to back it up. Unfortunately, we do not.
3 Likes
@Zaby 8/10. Good color matching. Not sure if I like the helm, and I'm not usually a fan of the whole "Paladins in dresses" thing.
I don't want to cleave to be honest.
I want to be middle/top tier in what Ret is good with. And that is single damage. We need to be better at that. Now classes with superior support/mobility/aoe/cc have, too, better single damage than us.
I am burned to read people "paladin damage is ok, ,is intended to be just Meh in everything".
I want to be middle/top tier in what Ret is good with. And that is single damage. We need to be better at that. Now classes with superior support/mobility/aoe/cc have, too, better single damage than us.
I am burned to read people "paladin damage is ok, ,is intended to be just Meh in everything".
I started a massive post in the hopes that we can consolidate feedback there to increase visibility and ease of access to our suggestions in the event we catch the eye of someone who can help
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20769658471
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20769658471
I’d rather they focused on rets glaring lack of mobility. It’s mobility is actually so bad it is a pve issue. Bad pvp mobility is one thing but losing 1-3k on a boss due to damage avoidance or target switching resulting in moving not damaging is pretty wild.
1 Like
Lacking cleave in a cleave heavy meta in both Mythic Plus and Uldir may be by design but it's an awful, failed design that needs to change.
It makes no sense that an Arms warrior has the potential to beat a Ret Paladin in single target damage, but a Ret Paladin will never, ever beat an Arms warrior in 2 target cleave(Because Ret has zero of this) or AoE.
It makes no sense that an Arms warrior has the potential to beat a Ret Paladin in single target damage, but a Ret Paladin will never, ever beat an Arms warrior in 2 target cleave(Because Ret has zero of this) or AoE.
1 Like
10/28/2018 02:36 PMPosted by OxuruRet isn’t a cleave spec currently and it won’t be a cleave spec in the near future either. The devs have already said so.
The lack of cleave damage is by design.
And yet Ret isn't even top dps in ST bosses either, just middle of the pack at best. In fact, Ret is not even in the top half of dps on a single fight in mythic uldir... including the mostly ST fights. Melee specs like Havoc, Arms, Rogues, Frost DK, Survival etc beat Ret in ST AND do 1.5-2x Rets Cleave/AoE damage without even losing much or any ST damage while Ret loses literally 50% ST damage (TV) just to do bottom tier AoE because blizz decided to make Rets only baseline AoE be a holy power finisher that hits like a wet noodle and takes up the same resources of the majority of our ST damage (TV).
Meanwhile a DH's normal ST rotation also just does massive AoE damage at the same time, and other specs like Combat, Arms, Fury etc just have to press one extra button occasionally to add cleave/aoe to their ST rotation. Ret also has !@#$ tier mobility and its utility is pretty lackluster at this point, little bit of mana for one healer, big whoop. DH has aoe stun, purge, darkness and a 5% magic damage buff for everyone.
So uh. Ret has no strength whatsoever. Trade all of it's aoe/cleave and mobility just to maybe be middle of the pack in a fictional ST target dummy boss that never moves (blizz doesn't even make pure patchwerk raid bosses anymore)? And anyway, why are some specs supposed to be weak by design at major aspects of mythic+/raiding like aoe and cleave, when there's plenty of specs that have no such weakness?? What is DH weakness for example? Amazing AoE, amazing cleave, amazing ST, amazing mobility, amazing utility and literally #1 in self healing among DPS. Great balance.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/19#
Hammer of Wrath baseline, kthnx.
10/29/2018 04:36 PMPosted by AlreàdylìtHammer of Wrath baseline, kthnx.
That literally doesnt solve any of ret glaring issues.
Ret is in the dumpster. Yeah you can still put up numbers and contribute but there is barely a reason to have a ret in a raid right now.
If you do a nice cleave pull with 20kdps, someone else is doing 30kdps.
If you do solid single target, someone else beat you with a lower parse.
Our rotation is clunky and awkward, and frequently you can't even put up good cleave if you don't hold wake back which is seriously awkward.
Hammer of wrath isn't even that great. Frequently someone else bombs the mob before you can get it out.
meh
Anyone else missing crusade right about now? That was fun at least. Inquisition is a nothing ability that gives you a buff that you should already have anyway. You literally use a power to give yourself haste... which does no damage, puts a clunky nothing in your rotation, and must be kept up constantly to even be worthwhile.
It's just so much fun.... not.
If you do a nice cleave pull with 20kdps, someone else is doing 30kdps.
If you do solid single target, someone else beat you with a lower parse.
Our rotation is clunky and awkward, and frequently you can't even put up good cleave if you don't hold wake back which is seriously awkward.
Hammer of wrath isn't even that great. Frequently someone else bombs the mob before you can get it out.
meh
Anyone else missing crusade right about now? That was fun at least. Inquisition is a nothing ability that gives you a buff that you should already have anyway. You literally use a power to give yourself haste... which does no damage, puts a clunky nothing in your rotation, and must be kept up constantly to even be worthwhile.
It's just so much fun.... not.
1 Like
10/30/2018 01:24 AMPosted by Fylerz10/29/2018 04:36 PMPosted by AlreàdylìtHammer of Wrath baseline, kthnx.
That literally doesnt solve any of ret glaring issues.
Not to mention it leaves a talent gap that then has to be filled in.
10/28/2018 02:36 PMPosted by OxuruRet isn’t a cleave spec currently and it won’t be a cleave spec in the near future either. The devs have already said so.
The lack of cleave damage is by design.
And that why no one want ret. They do no cleave.. This game all about cleave and aoe until boss. Then you better have great st which Ret don't.
Would be great if we had a cleave builder. Feral druids have had the opposite problem of having an ae builder and no spender and now they're getting one in 8.1. Where is our holy power ae builder? Inquisition isn't that bad but feels wayyy worse when you need to ae.
Paladin is my main and i love it:
Super def CD (the best). Super support : lay on hands, hand of protection, buff mana healer awesome self heals or off heals.
I got a monk and playstyle is nice but my pally is far better and with 2 safe falls (monks are afraid of high jumps).
Mobility: get a nitro boots and goblin glider.
Stop crying cuz we rock. We are the light and the power of God.
Super def CD (the best). Super support : lay on hands, hand of protection, buff mana healer awesome self heals or off heals.
I got a monk and playstyle is nice but my pally is far better and with 2 safe falls (monks are afraid of high jumps).
Mobility: get a nitro boots and goblin glider.
Stop crying cuz we rock. We are the light and the power of God.