Killing Spree is Killing Mee

Classes Rogue
1

As the title suggests, Killing spree for Outlaw rogue is killing me. Both Literally int eh game and a little bit mentally too. After seeing the intended changes for 11.1 i was hoping a dev could see this and post their thoughts and goals for this particular ability.

First off, i love hitting this button. Its satisfying to have a big bursty spender that breaks up the two finishers we have. But holy hot damn is it dangerous. I really appreciate that during your spree your damage gets turned into a dot, that was a great recent change that solved a big danger of it… but it felt like a solution that addressed a symptom of what i think the bigger problem with KS is; the (albeit brief) loss of control of your character. Even with conscious planning the use of it, to make sure you’re not casting it in something that’ll kill you in the next couple of seconds, with the amount of stuff on the floor in dungeons recently, chances are that something will spawn there for you to come out of KS and land in. But honestly, this isnt the biggest gripe i have with it.

The most frustrating part is the amount of effects on the floor that will make you lose control of your character, and stop KS instantly, dropping the damage mitigation and killing you. Eg: Tentacles on last boss of Grim Batol. So not only do you miss out on the full use of the spender but it stops the important flow of outlaw and or will get you dead.

Another fairly common, but just as incredibly frustrating part of the ability actually moving your character is that it can really bug out your character and kill you in other silly ways. If i use it in Dawnbreaker on a moving ship, i will regularly fall through the boat to my death. Or in Necrotic wake if i get targeted by Dark exile (last boss) mid spree, i have been propelled directly down through the floors to my death.

SO while i like the flavor of bouncing around, i think there are ways to keep it without actually losing control;
1 - Make it similar to blade dance with demon hunter. there you still have a flare of movement, but it appears to be just a visual and you dont actually change position or run the risk of hitting things you have no control over.
2 - Honestly i feel you dont have to move us at all. Theres a world where you can have a dope animation (i like the idea of something like Secret tech where you see a clone bounce around instead of you) without actually moving us.
3 - outside of reworking the actual skill, a better ‘remedy’ for me would be to not only have the damage reduction last a second or two after KS, but to make us immune to loss of control effects too. However this still wont save me from being catapulted through the planet.

At teh end of the day killing spree is a talent, and therefore optional. So all this can be avoided if i just dont pick it. But to me, thats not the fun way to go… and if you play the Trickster Hero Talents, which i really like, you actually do have to take it for full use of the talent tree.

Either way id be happy to hear from any Dev how they feel about it; or from any other outlaws that could change how i feel about it too.

3 Likes
2

Clos > Killing Spree = immune to damage for entire duration.
Or the dot can be cloaked away.

1 Like
3

for sure, thats typically the play. but a few things there;

Simply, you cant cloak them all.

It doesnt solve the bugs of getting thrown through the floor in places like the moving ship in dawnbreaker, or movement altering spells cast on you mid spree like the dark exile on last boss of necrotic wake. im sure these could be fixed retroactively but it’ll always be present in the future.

The damage reduction doesnt help immediately after KS ending, so if youre unlucky enough to have a swirly appear under you during or as you cast, youll die once youre returned to your starting location.

The Damage reduction component MUST have been implimented due to the developers understanding that its a dangerous execution of an ability, so i still believe that its a band-aid solution that doesnt address the issue of losing control of your character to begin with. Its great, but i still think it shouldnt be needed.

1 Like
4

I get what you mean, but with cloak, feint and evasion, as well as just keeping track of what mob abilities can effect you with spell timers for example, it is possible to work around most of the problems KS has most of the time. That annoying charge on coup de grace has probably caused me way deaths than killing spree has. And if there’s really no safe place to use KS, then it’s fine to not use it

And with DB, rogues aren’t the only class affected by that idiotic boat design. It’s less of a killing spree issue and more of a “DB is garbage who the f designed this place?” issue anyway.

I get KS can be a total pita, but if reworking meant losing a pretty op if used correctly defensive mechanic I’d definitely rather keep it as it is. An ability that can offer 100% invulernability is pretty wild when you think about it. Even just doubling it up with feint/elusiveness is pretty good.

1 Like
5

The problem with current Kspree is that most people do not understand how it works or how you can change your attack vector by steering while Kspree is active.

I think if CloS was effected by cool down reduction like it was in Legion via True Bearing roll it would make Kspree more frequently easier to use when combined with CloS.

:+1:

:surfing_man: :surfing_woman:

6

oh for sure. Coups a real pain, but sprees got me more. and yeah there are definitely times where conscious use of it will save me, for sure. but for trickster, i feel i need to use it on cd to keep the fazed debuff on aoe. Its a fairly forced hero talent.

and yeah i really like the use of it as a defensive for sure. but the frustration of me seeing im safe, casting it, then landing in a new swirly i cant grapple out of makes me wish i could just keep myself planted. also, its not really an invuln, if you get stunned (from something other than magic with cloak up) it drops you on the spot. then the dr is off straight away and again you dont have control where youve been put.

“but if reworking meant losing a pretty op if used correctly defensive mechanic I’d definitely rather keep it as it is”

yeah i feel you, i guess im more on the side of surviving more without it. feint, cloak, evasion are plenty enough for me.

Thanks for the thoughts mate, i appreciate it

7

I didn’t touch Outlaw yet (focusing on Sub and Sin rn), but I generally think that spending a defensive to make an offensive ability viable is kind of rough… Because it leaves you without the utility when you actually need it.

2 Likes
8

Never tried consciously steering, what do you mean by attack vector?

True bearing on it again would be dope. it would be up pretty damn often though, evasion is up a looooot as it is.

9

CloS is more of a proactive than a reactive cooldown. If I’m going to use it, I usually know exactly when or at least when I need to have it handy.
Also, evasion has CDR if talented. You may as well make as much use of it as you can.
Same with feint. You can practically spam it.

1 Like
10

You can directionally influence (DI) where you “pop” during the spree by moving in a direction while the animation occurs.

Think DI in Smash brothers.

It’s not a major change, but it is noticeable in the right circumstances.

1 Like
11

Like I have said before Kspree with CloS/Feint/Evasion and some directional maneuvering really is very counter intuitive which is why trickster for Outlaw is very rare for people to utilize as a talent tree.

My fear is that BlizZard assumes everything is fine with Trickster talent tree and ends up nerfing Fatebound hard because of its popularity. Without looking at why trickster is hard to use along with kspree for most people.

:+1:

:surfing_woman: :surfing_man:

12

Just don’t use it, it’s not worth it and kills you every time

13

That is what most people do as trickster use is very low.

:+1:

:surfing_woman: :surfing_man:

14

I’ve played mostly Trickster Outlaw Rogue in TWW (though I did a bunch as Fatebound Assassination too). “So Tricky” is amazing. Mapping Killing Spree with Cold Blood and 10 combo points (via supercharger) feels incredible, though the talent cost and energy efficient doesn’t feel great.

15

I like the blade dance idea, i remember using blade dance for the first time and thinking the tech would be good on a rogue too.

The rapid changing camera is very disorienting even if it is flashy. I think it would look even better just playing the animation without actually moving the rogue.