Kill the layers now and it'll fix your stupid server tranfers :p

[Holymirax-ashkandi]

Will the Dev’s remove the layers if the population does not decrease to the extent that they think it will? I think that is the real question. I can’t see them removing layering, and causing either massive amounts of people trying to get stuff done, or massive queues.

yes they will.

Before someone yells at me that “They promised they would get rid of them by phase 2!!!”, lets be realistic. Getting rid of all layers, before the population shrunk enough, would cause massive issues, in game, or in queue, depending on the rout they took.

then people should be smart and transfer like blizzard keeps telling them too.

[Brokenwind-grobbulus]

Will the Dev’s remove the layers if the population does not decrease to the extent that they think it will? I think that is the real question. I can’t see them removing layering, and causing either massive amounts of people trying to get stuff done, or massive queues.

IIRC, there was no wiggle room on it as voiced by the blues. When phase 2 hits, layers go away and realm caps will be vanilla-like.

[Herky-benediction]

Let’s say a single realm can hold 10,000 players. Lets also say this realm has 4 layers of 2500 players each. The queue doesn’t begin until the 10001st person logs in.

The population cap has always been a design decision not a technical limitation. Blizzard developers have admitted that even in 2004 they could cram 4-5 thousand people on a realm at once before it broke, but the cap was lower than that for game design reasons. They have also stated that the intent is for classic to have a vannila-ish concurrent population. Right now we are way past that, because layering allows for Herod (or wherever) to have a dozen (made up number) different layers with a few thousand people on it. It’s true, that from a technical standpoint, they could just turn layering off and put everyone on a single iteration of the game, but that would be game breaking from a design perspective. When they reduce layering, they are also going to have to reduce the population cap because the game was designed to have a certain number of people on Kalimdore and a certain number of people in the eastern kingdoms. Their workaround for this was to just duplicate the continents so they could have more people playing. When people talk about turning off layering, they are also including lowering the population cap with that because the reason for layering in the first place was to allow them to increase the population cap.

[Holymirax-ashkandi]

Will the Dev’s remove the layers if the population does not decrease to the extent that they think it will? I think that is the real question. I can’t see them removing layering, and causing either massive amounts of people trying to get stuff done, or massive queues.

IIRC, there was no wiggle room on it as voiced by the blues. When phase 2 hits, layers go away and realm caps will be vanilla-like.

i mean if they don’t, i wouldn’t really be surprised. how many promises has blizzard broken?

[Varionen-pagle]

I give up. Apparently there’s a huge disconnect between what people are yelling at me about and what I’m trying to explain.

[Brokenwind-grobbulus]

The forbes article does state that they will reduce realm size as they increase decrease layers. That’s two different things that people are combining into one.

Because they go hand in hand. That is the plan, that is what they are saying will happen. Arguing semantics of one half of that equation is just plain silly. You are not killed because you fell off a cliff, you are killed because you fell off a cliff and hit the ground. Your argument is akin to leaving out the whole splat on the ground part.

[Lyrian-pagle]

IIRC, there was no wiggle room on it as voiced by the blues. When phase 2 hits, layers go away and realm caps will be vanilla-like.

From what i read, i think in that same Forbes interview, Ion Haziwhatever said that they want “to have at any given point in time as few layers as are necessary to support the population that we’re seeing — with the eventual goal of having that number be one. No one will have a layer be destroyed out from under them.”

[Nobody-netherwind]

They are trying to restore their image… Don’t you have a phone?

But they are playing with fire. Clearly people are not leaving at the rate they were expecting, and they are not warning players about the queues that are coming (where is the sticky?).

This will not end well either way, but I hope it doesn’t end with Layering still active.

[Meatsacks-whitemane]

Doesn’t work that way. Nor will I move. <3 whitemane!

[Brokenwind-grobbulus]

IIRC, there was no wiggle room on it as voiced by the blues. When phase 2 hits, layers go away and realm caps will be vanilla-like.

From what i read, i think in that same Forbes interview, Ion Haziwhatever said that they want “to have at any given point in time as few layers as are necessary to support the population that we’re seeing — with the eventual goal of having that number be one. No one will have a layer be destroyed out from under them.”

And that goal has been repeatedly stated to be at the start of phase 2.

[Tln-herod]

Holymirax already posted that interview in text form, and posting it as a video won’t change anything. It doesn’t talk about reducing the population cap.

Put up or shut up.

[Brokenwind-grobbulus]

But they are playing with fire. Clearly people are not leaving at the rate they were expecting

People did not trickle in as they expected at release either (despite the clues given with name reservations)

[Tln-herod]

And that goal has been repeatedly stated to be at the start of phase 2.

It’s always been “A few weeks”, with an upper bound of “by phase 2”

[Brokenwind-grobbulus]

@Tln-herod

Holymirax already posted that interview in text form, and posting it as a video won’t change anything. It doesn’t talk about reducing the population cap.

Put up or shut up.

Imgine being that willfully ignorant.
Once again:

@Kaivax

While we are able to fit several times more players on a single realm in 2019 than was the case in 2006, we are not going to raise that cap any further, even though we have the technical capacity to do so. Raising realm caps would simply forestall the problem, letting more players in at launch but creating an unsustainable situation down the line, with severe queues when we turn off layering permanently before Phase 2 of our content unlock plan.

Please also note that our realm population estimates of Low, Medium, High, and Full are based on this increased capacity – a Medium realm today already has more characters on it than even the most crowded realms did back in 2006.

Unless you actually believe that total realm caps are at 2006 levels, you are just stirring the pot at this point.

[Lyrian-pagle]

And that goal has been repeatedly stated to be at the start of phase 2.

Not arguing that, im just saying, just because phase 2 comes around, if the population doesnt significantly decrease, i doubt they will remove layering entirely. How would the announcement go? " We have shut down all layering operations in game. Enjoy your 20 hour queue!" Its counter-intuitive.

That said, they have a bit of a PR nightmare either way. Remove the layering, keeping to their statement, and causing massive outrage over queues, or delaying the removal for a time, causing people to rage at them for not doing what they said they would do. Its a crap situation for them either way, really.

[Brokenwind-grobbulus]

Not arguing that, im just saying, just because phase 2 comes around, if the population doesnt significantly decrease, i doubt they will remove layering entirely

Would I find that at all shocking at this point?
No.

Would blizzard lose a metric ton of subs if they do that?
More than likely. Private Servers would see quite a resurgence.

[Tln-herod]

@Brokenwind-grobbulus

Imgine being that willfully ignorant.

Willfully ignorant that the interview doesn’t address this topic?

Trololol

@Kaivax

severe queues when we turn off layering permanently before Phase 2 of our content unlock plan.

FINALLY someone posts something blue.

Of course that same post claims that they’re not going to increase the cap… which they did anyway.

[Lyrian-pagle]

Would blizzard lose a metric ton of subs if they do that?
More than likely. Private Servers would see quite a resurgence.

Again, i think its a lose lose for them either way. People arnt going to keep paying for a game they cant get in to either, with 20 hr queues. There is no real simple answer, unless they split the realms, and make some layered and some not.

[Gobbysr-sulfuras]

i think the idea is that in that case the wanted normal realm population for a server would be 2.5k, each layer approximately representing the wanted amount of people for a single server, if they removed layering then that realm capacity would be split down from 10, 000 to the wanted 2.5k and the que times would go up

[Nobody-netherwind]

Its a crap situation for them either way, really.

You know… they could start talking right now, so people know for sure what to expect. Stick a post that address exactly that…

I’ve seen “that’s not how layering works” more than a few times when people warn about the removal on phase 2.