Is that why I have the ability to make my main melee ability a ranged ability as survival?
Survival has that little crossbow. It can be used for kill shot.
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They have the animation already next
Ok letâs keep KS 40y for all specs and call it a day u convinced me, next
It is thematically inappropriate for a survival spec which a survivalist is suppose to use all things at their disposal to survive to use ranged munitions? Lol no, next
Guess what itâs there already, take that up with the devs, I wouldnt mind wielding a 1h+hand xbow, next
It does tho, u are mad that msv is a thing, u would rather it be full ranged than a hybrid. We understand blizz took ur favorite toy away sport. Gotta nut up and accept it.
U 2 are being selfish for wanting to revert the spec for those who have rerolled because of the spec itself. Next
In pve yes. In pvp not rly, ur largest dmg will likely be SS unless the other team is bad. Also a good reason for KS for when people try to kite u, now u have 40yd execute. next
Again, the core issue u have. U dont want it to be melee so u dont want those who enjoy it to have new skills to enjoy. Stay mad
There I expanded on my previous post 
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Agreed. Give us a bow and let us roleplay as talion from shadow of war.
It looks more stupid that when an enemy gets close to you, you still shoot arrows where just hitting him with your bow would be more appropriate.
It works even less fir outlaw, because unlike sv, that can hold their spear with a single hand, outlaws have to first sheathe their blade to get a free hand to shoot the gun thrn put it away then pull out weapon againâŚ
Thematically, legion sv was in a way better place than bfa sv (and with animal instincts, dragonsfire grenade it actually had a very enjoyable combat flow, but w/e)
Yes, but spears are kinda light weapons.
I will continue saying that sv should be one handed sword + actual bow combo. (Le Aragorn style)
Well⌠Sv spec always was kiting, traps and explosives. That part did not change.
This
I guess we should just remove all weapons from the game altogether then. No need for them as itâs enough to animate having weapons equipped.
Whether any iteration of SV as a spec has lived up to itâs name since it actually became a specialization, we can debate til death.
However, the original version of SV as a talent category, which we got in Vanilla as a replacement to Outdoorsmanship, that compilation of talents and how they essentially were meant to improve the Survivability-portion of our baseline toolkit, along with utility and more.
This thematic approach to Survival as a concept, has not been achieved at any point since we left WotLK really.
Which is why I personally, am saying that Survival as a hunter spec, should no longer actually be called Survival. They have changed itâs name once. They can do so again, to something more fitting current themes/concepts.
You are right in that, depending on the type of content you engage in, how you utilize the toolkit of your chosen specialization may vary a lot. And what you get out of it.
However, no matter the type of content, the design of current SV(MSV), intends for you to make use of a melee weapon. To get the most out of it, in terms of damage potential, you would want to be in melee range.
For it was intended to be, yes, I agree on this. They intended(and still intends) for SV to be a melee spec. Legion SV in its own design wasnât perfect ofc. But at least it achieved what was intended thematically, with the new design direction of Survival as a specialization going into Legion.
Now in BfA, itâs still intended to be a melee spec, but compared to Legion, it has very little to do with melee combat.
Whether people like this or not, is up to them really.
The main point here is that Blizz(devs) accused the old RSV of not having a clear identity, that it lacked a defined niche.
Compare that to current MSV which has so many completely different abilities, few of which actually caters to that goal of a melee spec, I would say that they failed in what they set out to do.
Now, does this mean that current SV is a badly designed spec? Does it mean that players wouldnât like playing it? Ofc notâŚ
But when they havenât even delivered on what they said that they would do, how does that then justify the removal of RSV? Heck, even if they had kept with the Legion approach, it would not have justified the removal of RSV.
But, since MSV is already here and it has itâs playerbase, why not leave it at that and add in that 4th spec option which we shouldâve gotten from the start of Legion? MSV players would be happy. RSV players would be as well. All good.
Since the animation for 2h axe/mace/sword/polearm are all the same the weapon is mainly a stat stick. U also left out the part where I asked if he preferred a 1h+xbow since thatâs what the class uses.
Do u have a blue post about what the thematic approach to SV is and was intended to be? If not, it is all of us just assuming, and u know what they say about assumingâŚ
That was in response to the other guy saying KS doesnât suddenly make sense because it was ranged. Even when ur in melee range the whole time, SS is ur 2nd highest and climbs higher with more target up time so if a ranged skill can be that big of contribution to your dmg, a ranged skill still makes sense.
I would like flanking strike to move to baseline and some more melee skills to go with how the spec is currently but when I brought up the idea earlier I was met with âthey are pushing class identity so we shouldnt change it for one specâ so I now agree with them then they get pissy because it is a ranged skill.
No one has a good arguement for why it shouldnt be added to the spec aside from âthey should just make the spec ranged againâ. All biased answers.
As I said before if u can bring up support for a 4th spec, awesome. But that is besides the point. As we agreed upon, more skills the better.
I saw that. I feel like you might be missing the point.
All the ranged weapons are two-handed. You canât dual wield a 1h weapon with a ranged weapon.
Unless⌠Blizzard unprunes the ranged weapon slot (which they took out in MoP) and allow Hunters to carry both ranged and melee weapons⌠and rogues, warriors, and casters (the wands went in to the ranged weapon slot back in the day).
However, weâll again run into the problem that caused them to make away with the ranged weapon slot in the first place: the dreaded âstat-stick.â Melee weapons were stat sticks to hunters and casters, ranged weapons were stat sticks to rogues and warriors. (Though they could use them to pull but primarily the pulling went to Hunters.)
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Uhm no I dont. But itâs kinda obvious if you actually look at the 3 talent categories from back then isnât it?
Things that involved our pets in any real way was contained within the Beast Mastery talent category. Things that improved our use of ranged weapon, could be found within the Marksmanship talent category.
While things that generally improved tracking skills, defensives/utility and more, was found within the Survival talent category.
You donât have to get any official statement from the devs to see what the intent behind the design of the talent-categories we had as hunters back then.
Does this mean that this was the exact vision/intended philosophy the devs had towards hunters back then? Who knows. But if you look at the actual design/compilations, thatâs what it was like.
Besides, by âthematic approachâ I just mean that, the name Survival, from when we first got it in Vanilla, was based on the compilation of talents and how most of those talents were meant to improve our survivability by adding utility/defensives whether by additional abilities or passive effects.
And, since the end of WotLK(or even partially from WotLK itself) this has not been the case for Survival as a specialization. Since it became a specialization, it no longer holds talents/core functions mostly intended to add to our basic toolkit of utility/defensives. Nowadays, itâs about the same as all other specs, that it provides a specific defined playstyle that is connected to a certain hunter archetype/fantasy found in the game. Which is that of a melee fighter, fighting side by side with a pet.
This is why Iâm saying that it no longer lives up to itâs name.
Honestly, I find the argument of âclass identityâ to be deeply flawed when it comes to this.
I get why some donât want specs to so heavily define our playstyles. They want an approach more similar to what we had prior to having actual core specializations.
But honestly, if we are talking about a class which has moved into the territory of being a hybrid of sorts; which is where we can now find the Hunter class. Then, it only makes sense to actually add in abilities that cater more towards the core mechanics of a particular spec rather than adding in general abilities for the entire class, just for the sake of it.
And also, Ion himself said that, them looking more towards class identity over spec identity, doesnât necessarily mean that they will suddenly start to revert a lot of decisions made towards defining changes for certain specializations.
What they will focus on here, is more on adding in prior abilities and/or effects that were pruned or otherwise taken away from us in the past.
What the above basically means, is that going into Shadowlands, they arenât focusing as much on particular spec designs as they did for example going into Legion, in favor of looking to what they can add to the class outside of specializations.
Does this mean that they wonât change individual specs at all going into Shadowlands? No, not at all.
All that means, is that, compared to Legion, spec fantasy and individual spec identities wonât be as highly prioritized in terms of development as before.
It SHOULD be added to the spec. But IMO, since the spec is still intended to be a melee spec, it makes more sense for an Execute-ability, to be using the actual main weapon equipped.
We often see this outcome. Due to the new philosophies of Legion with such a focus on individual spec designs/spec fantasy. People got it into their heads that if 2 specs for 1 class arenât on the level of hybrids in terms of diversity/uniqueness, then one of them has to go(like what we saw in the case of MM vs RSV).
And now, going into Shadowlands, the devs started to talk about favoring the class as a whole over individual specs(compared to that of the Legion-approach). So now, people think that we should no longer have such defined specializations. Now, people think that a pure dmg class such as the hunter, should not be able to utilize multiple weapon types(fighting styles). Meaning ranged weapons vs. melee weapons.
If you ask me, it isnât this black or white. You have to allow for a âmiddle groundâ in terms of designing a class and itâs individual specializations.
Unlike in the past, we can now in the modern game allow us to have defined specializations which would provide playstyles that more closely follows certain archetypes, as in the end, this will allow for more larger choices to be made that defines our preferred playstyles.
In the past, your choices of talents, rarely had such an impact as it does today. Having choices like this, is a good thing. But that also doesnât mean that everything has to equal the level of diversity similar to that of a hybrid class. Thereâs something to be found in between these two extremes.
I hope that what Iâve written here makes sense^^. Bit of a rant really.
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I hope it comes back as a talent because I currenty donât have room for it on my bars. Would be nice if they put it in the same row as hunters mark.
Isnât hm becoming baseline
So it looks like you might need a add on that gives more bars
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Blizzard pruned for a reason. We had too many spells on our bars. I only have so many effective keybinds. I shouldnât have to invest in a gaming mouse because ppl whined about pruning.
That is absolutely unnecessary.
I played MoP on a 13-inch, 5-year-old MacBook using only the keyboard and touch pad.
(I was a very broke college student at the time. I literally could not afford to buy any fancy gear at the time. Only reason I could play WoW was because my dad paid for my subscription that year.)
And would you know what?
I. Loved. It.
Youâre not supposed to put every skill on your action bars!! Use macros, use keybindings, use common sense â only put the spells that you REGULARLY USE on the action bars.
If you donât PvP? You can go easy on the PvP skills. Donât raid? You can go easy on the raiding buttons (e.g., no need to put your potions and trinkets on the action bars).
You just gotta think smart about what you use. I mean, câmon, if this girl was able to get Max Rank in Brawlerâs Guild during MoP â which meant getting past Hexos and Ahooâru using the touch pad for movement and keybindings by pure memory because I had to toggle the UI off in order to be able to maximize my view on the 13-inch screen â youâll be able to figure out where to put those new 2 to 5 abilities.
Edit: I hated the WoD pruning. I hated the Legion pruning. I hated the BFA pruning. So I guess you could say Iâm one of those âwhiners.â 
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I suggested a 1h+1h xbow, sorry I didnt reiterate that. Which would infact use the 1h weapon for its melee damage and the 1h xbow for its ranged damage. Would be much less of a stat stick. Would be more like dual wield except it would matter more than the current iteration of DW.
That wont happen, but still my preference for the class.
Since wowâs pruning u can say this about most classes having stuff taken from it and placed baseline or gutted all together to be fair.
What is obvious to one may not be to another. This goes along the lines with assuming again. Unless we have a blue post about what the theme of the spec is, even currently, we are just assuming.
Glad to hear. I would agree with not even considering KS if I didnt have all the ranged skills I did. I think the class needs more melee skills and the ranged skills should be shorter distance. Who TF is hitting targets 40y out with a hand xbow? And apparently Iâm Joe Flacco out here throwing 3lb bombs 40y. I cant do anything if they decide no LS for sv but I do think that they need to add Fs baseline then KS around 20y for an execute. thatâs kinda the theme of the class, being one of the only classes that is melee and ranged.
Go away. People like this are the reason we have this game in the state it is in.
PREACH MY BROTHER!!
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In certain cases, this is true yes.
And?
Why are we even having this argument?
The talent category of Survival from back in Vanilla held talents focused mostly on survival in the form of added defensives/utility + a few talents that strengthened our output against enemies who got to close, until we managed to get away from them again.
That is no longer the case.
Since becoming a specialization, this is no longer the main focus of what is called Survival. No matter if weâre talking RSV, or today, talk MSV.
Was SV the only talent category which originally held talents and a thematic approach that has since changed a lot? No.
But does that matter? Whether SV was unique in this sense, wasnât what we were talking about anywayâŚ
Awesome!
You were the one arguing thematic approach and then trying to use vanilla iteration, 15y old, as a basis afterwards.
Again I would argue the theme to SV is being a melee and ranged spec, we should just tone down the ranged to 20y.
If we want to start holding the game to wotlk standards we should revert to it, which I would love. The game is no longer the same or near the same as wotlk thus applying the same logic to the game then and now do not make sense.
Iâll use my two handed axe as a long ranged attack, you canât stop me.
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Youâre not getting what my point was.
Iâm not arguing the theme of SV in itself here. Iâm just saying that the original theme of SV from back in Vanilla when it was a talent category, and not a defined core specialization(with a set playstyle), that this theme is no longer present, and hasnât been since it became a specialization.
It doesnât matter if weâre talking about the old RSV which we had between the end of WotLK and up until the end of WoD, or if weâre talking current MSV. Neither base versions provide that original theme from Vanilla, which is what they based the specâs name on.
This is why Iâm saying that a name-change might be warranted to better highlight the current theme of the spec. Meaning that of a melee-fighter of sorts.
Again, youâre missing the point I was making. Iâm not talking pruning or anything the likes of which.
I was strictly talking about how the core theme of SV since it became a specialization, no longer fits the actual name itself(as much), based on what served as the basis for SV as a talent-category back in Vanilla. And what most talents within this category focused on.
They could always give us the melee equivalent to the pocket crossbow.
Iâm not saying they should, but the precedent is there.
I wouldnât put it past Blizz to give BM and MM a âphantomâ dagger and convert an ability like Concussive Shot to Wing Clip.
It would suck, but it could be done.
Instead of changing MSV to fit the class, they could change the class to fit MSV.
Like you said, they can do this.
But I firmly vote NO on such a change in design directions.
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Just because they can doesnât automatically mean itâs a good idea, nor that they should do it.
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From the Deep Dive panel recap.
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/23187293/world-of-warcraft-deep-dive-panel-recap
When you start at level one with a class, instead of starting in a specific specialization or role, youâll start with a range of class abilities, which will help you make an informed decision when the time comes to choose a specialization.
We also want to make sure classes feel like they have abilities that align with their weapon choices, such as a warrior becoming an Arms warrior and becoming more proficient in a two-handed weapon, or a shaman becoming an Enhancement shaman and being able to dual-wield. This would open up the opportunity for these characters to have abilities like Shield Block or Primal Strike as a part of their identity.
Sounds like weâre getting class-wide raptor strike. Or some sort of baseline melee abilities. Idk how thatâs gonna work when we start off with a ranged weapon.