Kill Shot Execute/hunters executes

[Bepples-barthilas]

@Handevon-stormrage

I fail to see the problem with adding a 10-15y max range killshot for SV. Can either of you point out why a mid range spec cant have an execute in the 10-15y max range when pally hammer is what, 20yd?

How would this solve anything about what I said? It would still used a phantom ranged weapon in a spec that, for no real reason at this point, doesn’t actually equip a ranged weapon. Making it a budget version of a ranged attack doesn’t suddenly fix that. Hammer of Wrath is a magic-based attack; Kill Shot is literally just a really powerful shot from a bow or gun. How does that make sense for a spec that doesn’t actually have a bow or gun?

@Handevon-stormrage

U (Bepples) also dislike Msv in general from the posts ive seen from you and would prefer the spec be ranged again. Hope that’s not playjng into why u dont think SV should have KS.

I’m not even particularly opposed to SV getting KS on its own; what bothers me is how they continue to give this spec ranged abilities without actually making it a ranged spec like it used to be. Look where melee SV started, look where it is now, and look where it will be when it gets Kill Shot. Step by step it is going back to being ranged yet Blizzard can’t man up and make the decisive call. They wouldn’t be doing this if melee weren’t problematic. So why keep it melee? Because the Legion artifact would be too hard to account for?

[Handevon-stormrage]

@Bepples-barthilas

Kill Shot is literally just a really powerful shot from a bow or gun

It is literally just a shot. Nothing else. It doesnt have a cast time, it doesn’t root u at all during the use, it doesnt knock u or the target back, it is just as visually weak as arcane shot or concussive shot.

Aimed shot looks visually stronger so using “it is a strong shot” as an argument isnt valid im sorry. It would be completely fine to add KS to SV kit which is a mid ranged spec so having a skill THAT IS MID RANGED will be completely fine and will not hurt you or people who exclusively play MM or BM.

Ppl with this mentality are the reason we have these specs with less and less skill. Yes i realize RSV was a thing before, and people are upset about it. There is still no reason for the skill to not be introduced to SV aside from people who dont play the spec not wanting it to.

[Handevon-stormrage]

“You attempt to finish the wounded target off, firing a long range attack dealing 200% weapon damage plus 45. Kill Shot can only be used on enemies that have 20% or less health.”

This is the tooltip from wrath. U remove “long” and u change the max distance from 45y to 15y viola, you have just given SV KS.

Also notice how it says NOTHING about it being a “powerful shot”?

[Bepples-barthilas]

@Handevon-stormrage

It is literally just a shot. Nothing else. It doesnt have a cast time, it doesn’t root u at all during the use, it doesnt knock u or the target back, it is just as visually weak as arcane shot or concussive shot.

What on earth are you going for here? The point of my post was contrasting a powerful shot based on a ranged weapon with an ability based on magic like Hammer of Wrath. Your nit-picking tangent about whether or not it’s a “powerful shot” is not only absurd but also irrelevant to this point.

Survival having anything like Kill Shot, Aimed Shot, Steady Shot, or whatever is ill-fitting and reeks of bandaid-fixing. The spec doesn’t have a ranged weapon. Adding animations where your character pulls a bow out of nowhere does not constitute having a ranged weapon. It’s still a melee-weapon user. It is getting ridiculous and jarring how many ranged abilities are being added to Survival. If this is the direction they are going with then they should just cut their losses and make it ranged.

@Handevon-stormrage

Aimed shot looks visually stronger so using “it is a strong shot” as an argument isnt valid im sorry. It would be completely fine to add KS to SV kit which is a mid ranged spec so having a skill THAT IS MID RANGED will be completely fine and will not hurt you or people who exclusively play MM or BM.

How do you even come up with this? All you did was prove that Aimed Shot would make even less sense for Survival than Kill Shot. Congratulations? No one would argue against such a thing. That’s not mutually exclusive with Kill Shot not fitting Survival. Both cases can be true, you know.

SV is not a “mid-range” spec. That’s a figment of your imagination. It is a melee spec with ranged utility. Its toolkit consists of abilities that can be used at melee range and abilities that can be used at 40 yards. Making Kill Shot 20 yards would not fix any of the thematic problems. It would still be a strong ranged-weapon-based attack for a spec that doesn’t actually have a ranged weapon.

While adding SV wouldn’t directly hurt anyone playing any of the specs, like I’ve said many times now: making SV melee absolutely did and if they are willing to add all sorts of ranged abilities like Kill Shot to SV now then there is no reason why it should still be a melee spec.

@Handevon-stormrage

Ppl with this mentality are the reason we have these specs with less and less skill. Yes i realize RSV was a thing before, and people are upset about it. There is still no reason for the skill to not be introduced to SV aside from people who dont play the spec not wanting it to.

This has nothing to do with skill.

@Handevon-stormrage

“You attempt to finish the wounded target off, firing a long range attack dealing 200% weapon damage plus 45. Kill Shot can only be used on enemies that have 20% or less health.”

This is the tooltip from wrath. U remove “long” and u change the max distance from 45y to 15y viola, you have just given SV KS.

Also notice how it says NOTHING about it being a “powerful shot”?

Like I said before, making Kill Shot for SV have a reduced range is a god-awful idea. It would contribute nothing thematically and only succeed at making a worse version of the same ability. Plus, being long-range is actually petty important to Kill Shot thematically.

Nitpicking over my use of the words “powerful shot” is a pointless distraction. The point is that it is a strong shot i.e. it does a lot of damage, and it is thematically based on the ranged weapon and the shooting itself. It doesn’t explicitly need the word “powerful” in the toolkit to be that. When you look at something like Serpent Sting, while it’s still silly that SV uses it the way it is, at least it can kind-of make sense to have a sidearm option of applying a poison. How does the same thing make sense for performing a direct, highly-damaging shot?

At some point you have to come to terms with the fact that an ability that was formerly universal to Hunters no longer makes sense thematically for one of the specs for the simple fact that it’s a ranged weapon attack and the spec does not have a ranged weapon. This is why it made sense to have the ranged weapon as the most central, all-encompassing element of the Hunter identity in the past. If the Legion developers were able to get over themselves and understand this we could have avoided this whole mess.

[Tacohands-malganis]

MSV will have Kill Shot and it might even be as simple as throwing an axe or changing the name to Killing Blow and being melee. The way it is delivered if it is ranged doesn’t matter.

[Handevon-stormrage]

@Bepples-barthilas

for the simple fact that it’s a ranged weapon attack and the spec does not have a ranged weapon. This is why it made sense to have the ranged weapon as the most central, all-encompassing element of the Hunter identity in the past

There it is. U dont want them to have it because u dont like Msv. So i did end up being right in my original assumption.

@Bepples-barthilas

The point is that it is a strong shot i.e. it does a lot of damage, and it is thematically based on the ranged weapon and the shooting itself

Literally just a shot attempting to finish off a target nothing else

@Bepples-barthilas

Nitpicking

The irony is astounding

@Bepples-barthilas

Plus, being long-range is actually petty important to Kill Shot thematically

It really isnt tho

@Bepples-barthilas

Making Kill Shot 20 yards would not fix any of the thematic problems

What would that be? Not being ranged? We get it ur butt hurt over not having Rsv. Also SS, bomb, murder of crows, KC are all 40-50y, should just mske KS 40yd for sv too. Uve convinced me that it shouldnt be 15y but 40y min now so now it is also long ranged!

@Bepples-barthilas

The spec doesn’t have a ranged weapon

Having 4 stings when talented all using the same ranged weapon animation plus binding shot iirc

@Bepples-barthilas

Adding animations where your character pulls a bow out of nowhere does not constitute having a ranged weapon

It is already a thing with the spec

@Bepples-barthilas

It is getting ridiculous and jarring how many ranged abilities are being added to Survival. If this is the direction they are going with then they should just cut their losses and make it ranged.

Again we get to the source of your issues.

Dude. Look. We understand ur sad. We undersrand blizz took away a spec u like. But hoping they screw up and gut MSV so bad they just revert it to RSV again is just being selfish at this point. You have proved nothing about how SV shouldnt have KS aside from u not liking the new meleeish theme.

[Ghorak-laughing-skull]

@Kazenia-proudmoore

But Killshot is one of the returning class-wide abilities right?

Isn’t the purpose of returning class-wide abilities to reinforce class identity, not spec?

So doesn’t making changes to a class-wide ability to better suit one spec kinda defeat the purpose?

While I personally, am not a big fan of Kill Shot as a mechanic(mostly because I engage in PvE, not PvP), I do agree with this.

Them stating that they are going to introduce class wide abilities to better cater towards class fantasy, but to then redesign one of said abilities just for it to fit 1 particular spec within that class…

@Handevon-stormrage

It is literally just a shot. Nothing else. It doesnt have a cast time, it doesn’t root u at all during the use, it doesnt knock u or the target back, it is just as visually weak as arcane shot or concussive shot.

There are many cases where abilities are here for practical use rather than because they make perfect sense aesthetically or thematically.

@Handevon-stormrage

Aimed shot looks visually stronger

Not really. All you’re doing is standing there, waiting. You’re just taking the time to properly aim your weapon.

@Handevon-stormrage

It would be completely fine to add KS to SV kit which is a mid ranged

It’s still intended to be a melee spec. Not a ‘‘mid-range’’ spec.

@Bepples-barthilas

While adding SV wouldn’t directly hurt anyone playing any of the specs, like I’ve said many times now: making SV melee absolutely did and if they are willing to add all sorts of ranged abilities like Kill Shot to SV now then there is no reason why it should still be a melee spec

I would agree yes.

What’s the point of having a melee-spec if they aren’t going to make it focus more on melee combat?

Because adding more ranged abilities takes it closer to the general class fantasy?

Then, why have a partial melee-spec at all?

[Handevon-stormrage]

@Ghorak-laughing-skull

What’s the point of having a melee-spec if they aren’t going to make it focus more on melee combat?

9 ranged abilities (off the top of my head) plus the ability to make your melee ability ranged for a short time. the theme of SV seems to be one that uses melee and ranged.

@Ghorak-laughing-skull

There are many cases where abilities are here for practical use rather than because they make perfect sense aesthetically or thematically.

@Ghorak-laughing-skull

What’s the point of having a melee-spec if they aren’t going to make it focus more on melee combat?

(Reposting those 2 next to eachother because it is ironic)

Ks is thematic and practical, also MSV shouldnt have it even thought it would be practical. See? Also saying in your post we should lean away from spec identity while also saying KS wouldnt fit SV spec identity…

I would personally like to hear from a pvper on the matter and see their thoughts instead of people who are upset MSV is here isntead of RSV. Or if ur gonna be against it dont contradict yourself in the same post.

Yall anti msv folk better decide if u want them to push, class identity or spec identity. Class identity sv gets ks, spec identity sv gets killing blow or something…

[Handevon-stormrage]

Heck they should add explosive shot back so that i can shoot it from my pocket crossbow.

Man i imagine that would really grind some of yalls gears.

[Ghorak-laughing-skull]

@Handevon-stormrage

Reposting those 2 next to eachother because it is ironic

Not what the purpose of that above post was for. And you already know that, don’t you?

The above one is directed towards why we(or warriors), or we as BMs have executes even though aesthetically, they don’t really make sense.

The below quote is about something else entirely.

If those two were about the same topic then yes, it would be ironic.

But here, that’s not the case.
One’s about niche mechanics that aren’t class specific.

The other is about spec design as a whole.

[Handevon-stormrage]

May not have been your intent but it is a very solid point u make. Putting something in a spec because it is practical is good so we should do so. Even if it is a spec u dont like. Also again all of you are saying we should be focused on class fantasy not spec, but are against giving SV KS when it had KS in the past.

I understand folks are mad about the spec being melee now but stop trying to make the spec less fun for others who enjoy it please and than you

[Ghorak-laughing-skull]

@Handevon-stormrage

Also again all of you are saying we should be focused on class fantasy not spec, but are against giving SV KS when it had KS in the past.

When it was intended as a ranged spec yes.

@Handevon-stormrage

I understand folks are mad about the spec being melee now but stop trying to make the spec less fun for others who enjoy it please and than you

Not what I’m trying to do.

But then again, if for MSV, you equate “more fun” with “more ranged abilities” then that says something, doesn’t it?

[Thèón-emerald-dream (Thèón)]

@Ogdenir-alleria

Kill Shot does not fit with a melee spec

MSV is actually a ranged/melee hybrid. Ranged KS fits perfectly. MSV has that little bow from serpents sting to use as well.

[Handevon-stormrage]

@Ghorak-laughing-skull

But then again, if for MSV, you equate “more fun” with “more abilities” then that says something, doesn’t it?

Fixed that for ya.

More abilities and options are more fun especially on a melee ranged hybrid. i think SV actually has more skills with range than they do skills that are melee range.

Again i inow u guys are butt hurt about it being a melee spec now. Stop trying to make things less fun for people who enjoy the spec.

@Ghorak-laughing-skull

When it was intended as a ranged spec yes

Its like SV doesnt have any ranged skills…

[Ghorak-laughing-skull]

@Handevon-stormrage

Fixed that for ya.

Alright then. Skip Kill Shot and Put in Flanking Strike instead as an execute.
Brings the supposed number of melee aspects as well as the level of coordination between the pet/hunter up.

Or just give MSV an execute effect on Kill Command like for BM. Both specs are versions of BM anyway so…

@Handevon-stormrage

More abilities and options are more fun especially on a melee ranged hybrid

Why does it matter especially for a melee ranged hybrid?
Wouldn’t more abilities be just as fun for more focused playstyles?

@Handevon-stormrage

Stop trying to make things less fun for people who enjoy the spec.

If only the devs would’ve listened to people telling them this before SV was turned into a melee spec.

You know, the people who enjoyed SV as a spec while it was still RSV. The people who at the time had a spec they were perfectly happy with.
And the biggest irony of it all? There weren’t actually any people posting about how RSV should be turned into a melee spec. And the devs still changed it!

You’re angry because some players on the forums say that MSV should be reverted. Imagine the feeling when your spec gets completely changed from ranged to melee despite no one saying that it should be, despite no one having a problem with it in that sense…

[Handevon-stormrage]

@Ghorak-laughing-skull

If only the devs would’ve listened to people telling them this before SV was turned into a melee spec.

Ive addressed this already. We understand ur mad and that you are against MSV being fun.

@Ghorak-laughing-skull

Skip Kill Shot and Put in Flanking Strike

You are contradicting yourself again. That is spec identity not class identity. Fs should be base line with KS execute because more buttons is better.

Do any of you have a good reason for sv to not get ks that isn’t based in your negative view of the spec/ wanting it changed back to RSV? i havnt heard a single good reason and every step u guys take is contradicting past things you have already stated.

@Ghorak-laughing-skull

You’re angry because some players on the forums say that MSV should be reverted.

Guess pointing out u r mad that sv was made melee makes me mad? (Ur tone in other posts makes that obvious) That’s some mental gymnastics there buddy. Im still waiting on a good reason it can’t be added to the spec when they are reinforcing class identity.

Sv is a spec of the hunter class. Ks is being given to the hunter ckass. Ks should be given to SV because it is a spec of the class. This is sound logic. Please do some mental gymnastics to prove this wrong.

[Ghorak-laughing-skull]

@Handevon-stormrage

Ive addressed this already. We understand ur mad and that you are against MSV being fun.

It’s quite sad that you keep overlooking the point I’ve made several times by now. You say you’ve read my other posts but, if you did, you would’ve noticed how I have said, multiple times, that it’s not MSV in itself that I have a problem with.

What I have a problem with, is how it was implemented. And what the devs said they wanted the new MSV to provide. They wanted a spec that gave a clear identity in terms of the core playstyle.
They said that it wasn’t the case with RSV, thus why they decided to make it a melee spec with most focus being on melee combat.

But now, it barely is a melee spec…
It’s still intended to be one, but so little of it actually involves melee combat.

And, the thing is, current MSV, doesn’t really have a clear identity of what it’s all about. It has 2 melee abilities, it has a bomb you throw out, it has a ranged ability which doesn’t use a ranged weapon, but a “made up” one. And it has Kill Command which is a pet based ability taken from BM.

What identity can one get from all that? It’s just a bit of everything put together really.

Anyway, back to my previous point.
They can keep MSV all they want to. Just give us RSV back as a 4th spec and it’s all good.

@Handevon-stormrage

You are contradicting yourself again. That is spec identity not class identity. Fs should be base line with KS execute because more buttons is better.

You’re the one who “fixed” my previous statement by removing the “class identity”-part of ranged combat.

I just followed your logic.

At least the spec we had prior was all about one core identity, meaning ranged combat. Which also happened to be fully in line with the “class identity” as you like to put it.

Current MSV is not about one core identity. It’s about utilizing multiple, completely different, elements of thematic design.

And, according to you, more ranged abilities equals a spec which caters more towards the class identity in general. So, while were at it, just remove everything that involves melee combat from the spec and put in only ranged abilities requiring a ranged weapon and we have a version of SV which caters even more towards the “identity of the class” as a whole, than it does now.

[Handevon-stormrage]

@Ghorak-laughing-skull

more abilities equals a better spec

FTFY

Again i understand ur upset about how blizz did u guys. But stop trying to make the spec less fun for people who already enjoy it. This “they screwed me so screw your fun” is not only annoying but pathetic.

@Handevon-stormrage

Sv is a spec of the hunter class. Ks is being given to the hunter ckass. Ks should be given to SV because it is a spec of the class. This is sound logic. Please do some mental gymnastics to prove this wrong.

Waiting…

[Arctos-hellscream (Arctos)]

@Ghorak-laughing-skull

If only the devs would’ve listened to people telling them this before SV was turned into a melee spec.

Yeah, but they didn’t. Tough.

I love how blizzard talked about giving spells back to the classes because specs got too focused, and the immediate response from hunters is ‘well survival shouldn’t have kill shot it’s melee’. Every other class is sitting there celebrating getting stuff back, but hunters immediately try to lawyer a way to tell msv players to sod off.

Also, you kinda sound like the melee players who were upset about BM/MM getting traps back in early legion because it ‘diminished’ msv or something.

[Kazenia-proudmoore]

@Arctos-hellscream

I love how blizzard talked about giving spells back to the classes because specs got too focused, and the immediate response from hunters is ‘well survival shouldn’t have kill shot it’s melee’.

Yeah, Blizzard said they went too far. They regret pushing spec identity so hard. Sounds like they regret MSV.

Personally, I’m glad Killshot is coming back. The more ranged attacks MSV has, the less sense it makes to keep it melee.

@Arctos-hellscream

Every other class is sitting there celebrating getting stuff back, but hunters immediately try to lawyer a way to tell msv players to sod off.

Every other class didn’t get a spec deleted… Good for them.

The stuff we’re getting back makes SV stick out like a sore thumb even more than now. The problem isn’t the returning abilities, its the melee!!