Key killed due to leaver after making it clear what kind of run it was

Gameplay Dungeons, Raids and Scenarios
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I formed a group, offering my key (ToS +10) up for a completion run. I made it clear it was just a run for completion, not a push group though time would be tried for. After the group formed I reiterated that in no uncertain terms, everyone but the healer spoke up in understanding.

We start the run, have a few rough spots but still get the first boss down with no wipes, I head to the hall after that boss, pull some mobs and work on kiting them to keep them out of dust clouds and the like. We get second reaping and I die during it, healer Brezzed me then left shortly after.

It was still early in the run, even if we did not make time we could have easily been just over, yet even that option was closed off due to the leaver.

It is things like this that make people want punishment for M+ leavers. I’d say it is about time to put such in the hands of the key holder. Like if it is my key that I am offering up to get myself, and others, the weekly chest and someone leaves I should be able to hit them with a debuff or some such that effects their ability to do M+ for the rest of the week,

Now before someone says it could be abused:

  1. it could only be done if someone leaves within the time limit
  2. It would only be done in the case of leavers or extended D/Cs (the kind that make one wonder if they rage quit)
  3. Ideally it would require reasoning like “Group was advertised as x and they were given chances to back out”

Possible punishments could include:

  1. locked out of M+ for the rest of the week
  2. busted gear
  3. “resurrection sickness” type debuff

I can understand those that leave groups that are not meeting their goals, but really if a group is advertised as a completion group, why join if you are wanting to push?

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Sounds random, do you think maybe he left because he had to leave ?
but I agree, its also rude why do people apply for a key if they are gonna get wife aggro or are too drunk and fall off their chair or something.

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I did my atal + 10 this week, everything was going fine but the one dps was like high on drugs or something… pretty much did 0 dps.

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if I had know he had a reason, I would have been ticked he had to go, but would not hold it against him, this is why I am placing it in the hands of the key holder, they can make the call. Some might let it slide if a reason is known, others might let it slide no matter what, some might want to punish all leavers reason or no.

Even just a quick “storm coming” or “wife/kid aggro” would put my desire for punishment on ice. It is just too easy to assume the worst when nothing is said.

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So you invited someone you didn’t know at all and they didn’t live up to your expectation. You realize that can happen when you work with strangers?

You said it was early in the run. You lost 10 minutes of time maybe? And your key is a 9 instead of a 10. Either get over it and do the 9, or be more selective about the people you invite.

No punishment system is needed if you either accept the risk you choose by inviting strangers or accept the responsibility of building a stable group of people you know and trust to behave the way you want.

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Did you miss the part where I had stated the kind of run it was and how I even gave people the chance to back out? My expectation was just a simple “stick it out to the end or if it was clear it was not going to happen”

Yeah, but if I advertise it as a completion group, and even reiterate that BEFORE the run starts is it not a reasonable expectation that those who would have issues with it would leave BEFORE starting or speak up? I at least extend that courtesy to groups wanting to push I wind up joining.

I am selective about the groups I join (avoid those advertised as push) and try to advertise any group I set up as something that those interested in pushing should just avoid themselves.

Even when I advertise the kind of group it is and give people a chance to be like "oh, sorry I am looking for x kind of group (say push, 2 chest, etc) and you are running y type (completion). There is a point when the risk of inviting strangers ends. The finder can be filled with all kinds of groups, it should not be much of an issue to find the kind of group one is looking for, but either way is it too much to at least stay until the timer runs out if the goal is completion?

You say a punishment is not needed? well, one would not be asked for if people at least showed they could read the listings or party chat before the instance starts. Failure to do so should at least be worth locking them out of M+ until the timer would run out anyway across the account.

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Nope, I didn’t miss that. Do you believe that stating your expectations obligates people to meet them? I don’t disagree that especially in your circumstance it may have been a jerk move. But if you choose to invite randos you’re also choosing the chance to invite jerks.

It is a reasonable expectation, and I also extend that courtesy when I join a group. But it is also reasonable to accept that people don’t become indentured to you because you invited them and you don’t have more power over how they choose to spend their own game time than they do. It sucks, but in the end you’re out 10 minutes and a key level. I believe you have the strength to find a way to move on.

And that’s good, but your expectations, at least in this case, still exceeded the reality of what happened. You need to be more selective if that occasional dissonance is a major problem for you.

No, there isn’t. You did a lot of good things to minimize that risk, but when you’re dealing with strangers there is no way to eliminate it. I run M+ almost exclusively and we have had people DC mid-run, so there really isn’t a way to completely eliminate risk even with people you know well, let alone people you don’t know at all.

In a previous thread on this topic, I acknowledged that it wouldn’t be a bad thing for everyone in a M+ group to be locked out of instances for the duration of the timer, or until the key was completed or reset. It would have no effect on people remaining in the group, but because the lock out is applied equally to everyone it is not an unwarranted punishment.

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I think it’s about time there’s a punishment for people that keep making the same post on something that Blizz said they’re not going to do. Me and my guildies have left a bunch of keys together when it became clear that we weren’t going push and you’re suggesting that we should be punished for it by some automated system.

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I’d say it is about time to put such in the hands of the key holder.

Absolutely not. 100% subject to abuse

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“beating a dead horse gif”

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Someone should add a search function to the forums so that people could look to see if the issue they want to post about has already been discussed a nauseating number of times. They can then read through the old threads and see if they have something unique to add.

This would be a major quality of life improvem-…oh wait, never mind, it already exists…

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I like pushing keys as much as the next guy, but if I join a group advertising completion, I’m going to complete it unless it becomes overwhelmingly apparent that the group cannot do so. Even then, I won’t leave unless the group agrees to disband or someone else leaves first.

As for random life occurences being the reason people bail? I doubt it. I’ve seen dozens of people quit groups and it almost always happens after a wipe and without a word. If it were RL stuff, the after wipe timing wouldn’t be so on point, and they’d likely say something.

This is why I miss old WoW, before cross realms. If a guy ruined your group, it was a pretty safe bet that word would get around and that guy wouldn’t get groups anymore. The system worked.

If we’re insistent on keeping this cross realm crap, there should be a way to track someone’s details. If armory can track gear, keys completed, raid progress, achievements, pvp stats, i don’t see why it shouldn’t be able to track more information, like how many keys you failed, how many keystone groups you quit, etc.

Players need a way to avoid toxic players. Time was, a name was enough.

This is an MMO. These games were designed to mirror a real world community. Being able to change your name, appearance, faction and server at the drop of a hat really makes it impossible for the community to avoid you if you’re toxic. (Armory should really track previous names, servers, guilds, etc.)

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if m+ is going to be a big, competitive esport, people who leave mid-game need to be punished.

you can’t join a ranked overwatch match and then leave mid game without any repercussions. you can’t leave a ranked Starcraft game early because real life came up and expect your rating to not be affected

even within WoW, the other esport, arenas, will penalize you for leaving in the middle of a ranked game.

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Part of a real world community is establishing relationships with people who share your interests and ideals. M+ is intended for organized groups of 5. If you choose to invite strangers instead of participating in M+ like a community, with people you’ve come to know, then you need to accept that those strangers may or may not share your values.

Do you invite people you know to parties at your house or strangers? If you were to invite a group of 4 strangers into your home and one of them acted like a jerk, do you think there is something you could have done differently to ensure that next time you invite people in, everyone behaves to your expectations?

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I’m going to stop you right there. It’s not an esport as it stands. Except for the MDI, the only scoreboard is on a 3rd party site. If the MDI had rules against bailing mid key I would have no objection. Do any MDI players want to weigh in on whether or not you feel that is necessary?

Outside of that, M+ dungeons are part of an MMORPG, and you don’t have the authority to decide how someone spends their game time. That includes holding them hostage in a group they don’t want to be in any more.

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are you held hostage when playing a ranked overewatch game? or a ranked match in the many many types of games that offer them. did you ignore the entire content of my post for a specific reason?

within WoW, the MMORPG, you will be penalized for leaving a ranked arena match early. are you held hostage in arenas now?

what exactly are you saying here.

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TL:DR : saying ‘’ going for completion’’ doesn’t means people who join are forced to carry you until the bitter end.

I’ve had a wide range of experience, particularly while level’ing alts… and something bug me with the OP.

We start the run, have a few rough spots but still get the first boss down with no wipes

that’s 4 trash pull, and only 1 of them have any noteworthy mechanic to them ( 3rd pull, where the tank will get stunned by 2 stealthed mob upon pulling).

you had a ‘few’ rough spots in 4 trash pull?

‘‘going for completion’’ doesn’t necessary means ‘‘suffer through extreme incompetence’’. it can means you are simply trying to get a weekly +10 done for your ilvl 370 alt, and will be pulling single pack at a time.

I’ve seen so much moronic behavior doing lower level keys that at this point I can’t blame anyone for leaving a group when the leader himself admit he was on the lower-end of the skill spectrum… some stuff is just not headache worthy.

And again, saying ‘’ completion only’’ isn’t an excuse for making LFR player look good… it’s a M+10, the traning wheel should be off by that point.

You said it was the healer who left, right?

when you said ‘completion run’, you probably expected a smooth run, where nobody would call out your mistake, where DPS’er would be pressured to perform, where people don’t mind if you don’t have an optimal route…

but you do realize that every mistake you make means more job for the healer? every low DPS’er also means more job for the healer… so you’re calm and relaxed ‘completion run’ can easily turn into a nightmare for that poor healer who have to work thrice as hard in order to cover up all your mistake.

thrice isn’t an exagerration either… if you watch the MDI stream, with competent players healer still have time to DPS despite running at neck-breaking pace in +18s… yet, with a bad group in a +10 you’ll be chugging mana potions and popping CDs every other trash pull while not even going for timer.

please, think of the poor healer who have to work thrice as hard because you can’t be bothered to do your job properly…

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I ignored the content of your post because most of it isn’t relevant. Who forms the groups in a ranked overwatch game? Who forms the groups in the “many many types of games” that have ranked matches?

Who forms the groups in M+?

Are you penalized more for leaving than losing? Even if so, arena is a competitive game inside WoW with a ranking ladder provided by Blizzard. M+ has no ranking supported by Blizzard. It is just groups of people doing dungeons.

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do you think this is significant for some reason?

ranked oferwatch can be queued with friends, so the players make the group, as they do with m+ this changes nothing and is irrelevant.

and why don’t you just take a guess as to what happens if you leave a ranked arena match. it’s not exactly obsufated. you lose rating, as you would if you lost.

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Do you think it’s not? If the game groups you up with someone, you didn’t really have a choice in who you’re playing with and it sucks if you take a rating hit because you got stuck with someone you would never have chosen to play with.

The players are 100% in control of who they invite to their M+ groups, which means they are 100% responsible for the outcomes resulting from who they invite.

As you would if you lost. So you’re not getting penalized for leaving, you’re getting penalized for losing. That sounds fine.

What is the penalty to the key holder when someone leaves early? Loss of key level. What is the penalty when everyone stays and they finish with a timer expired? Loss of key level.

Nothing is wrong here except people getting butthurt when someone else doesn’t want to play with them any more.

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