i like how everyone is dooming that herald is the be all end all spec because templar is ‘dead’ 
when in reality they’re both so close you can literally play which ever.
Not in PvP. Even when templar was bugged, most rets were still picking Herald because it was still better.
The game doesn’t revolve around your m+ minigame.
after playing both in skirms all night I think both will be solid but damn it was fun to hit more than one HoL in the window
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It’s not comparable, Herald dps is miles ahead of Templar in PvP, even when it was bugged and you consistently got off 3+ HoL’s every time you casted wake of ashes.
Enemy players are not going to stack up nice and neatly for you like in m+, the single target dps of HoL won’t match up to multiple Dawnlights constantly being applied. Meanwhile dawnlight is so easy to apply and does so much damage.
And the spec shouldn’t be ruined cause of your pvp minigame
At the moment Ret and Prot are the worst specs for ST if we believe WoWheads tier tist released yesterday. More uses of HoL may have been a great way to give our ST the oomph it needed. I morne the loss of repeated use of HoL.
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Nor should it be ruined because of your minigame. Your minigame isn’t more important than my minigame and most people on these posts are arguing from a PvP perspective.
How can it ruin any style of playing WoW, when majority of people enjoyed the multiple uses of HoL, and other classes still out performed Ret?
If anything having HoL be 1 use ruins the spec, and makes it boring is unviable in most scenarios (raid,m+,pvp)
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Not unviable in pve but boring yes.
very unviable in pvp
Comparing Templar to Fury warr, UH DK, Assa Rogue, any other melee spec and it comes up severely behind in dps for PVE, that being M+ or raid.
They would have to redesign a good chunk of the Templar tree to account for multiple uses of HoL. Higher Calling, Undisputed Rulling and Light’s Deliverance makes no sense if you can use HoL more than once.
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Yes I don’t think anyone is denying that those talents would have to be adjusted. Personally I think it makes a lot more sense if light’s deliverance let you use HoL only once (but for free), while wake of ashes let you use it for 12 seconds. Undisputed ruling doesn’t need to be changed but the other 2 definitely do.
They did, they fixed an OBVIOUS bug.
It didn’t make sense with the buffs HoL gave for it to be used multiple times.
It didn’t make sense for the free HoL to be at 60 stack if you can use it 3 times every 30 sec, it literally makes the CAPSTONE the WORST throughput node in the Hero spec which is ridiculous.
The hero spec were meant to:
- Integrate in what were doing
- Enhance a specific aspect or flavor of the class
- Be at most 20-25% of our damage
If Templar is too low compared to herald, they have obvious levers to use beside leaving it bugged.
They can increase HoL damage or increase Empyrean Hammer damage (since they are more steady throughout our rotation).
Or they could nerf Herald and buff core spells.
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Everything you just said is 100% correct but you’re still missing the main point: the bugged version was FUN. Final Verdict has hit like a wet noodle for the last 3 or 4 expansions. It feels good to have a holy power spender that actually moves the enemy’s health bar. Locking it to 3 times per 30 seconds and costing 5 holy power means they can reasonably allow this spell to do good damage whereas a permanent version of HoL would need to have it’s damage reduced by a lot.
I’d argue that the “fun” people had with it had everything to do with the damage they were doing and not the actual gameplay feedback it gave.
A large bunch of people disliked spenders costing 4 HP during DF, yet this is exactly the same gameplay and in fact the sole difference is the ridiculous buffs and damage it gives…
So yeah…
You’ll excuse me if I perceive this argument of being “fun” to be a pretty fickle one.
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Agreed.
I have basically every class either mid 70s or max and paladin Templar HoL spam was the most fun spec I’ve played in a long time. It creates a kind of mini game inside of your rotation and is WAY less boring, but not overly complex either. I think the argument it completely takes over the rotation is dumb - it just creates a snapshot window. There are still gaps outside of your HOL window. I felt I was actually using all my abilities as Templar- with like a Superman mode every so often. Now in herald I’m just spamming divine storm over and over.
It was fun seeing those big hammer smashes a bunch of times in a row. I don’t want to be forced to go back to herald just spamming diving storm a hundred times a fight. Basically being like a weird melee dot class. I would play Druid if I wanted to be a melee dot class. I want those chunky numbers.
Anyway, rant over. Please bring it back blizz!
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it’s funny you say that because I loved that talent and always ran it and was sad they removed it. 3 Holy power spenders feels tedious and unrewarding like im just spamming my FV button to slap them with a wet noodle over and over
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4 HP spender felt slow and sloggish.
Perspective I guess.
A lot of tempers running wild in this thread. That being said, I am bias, I thought the bug was atrocious as it made other buttons useless to press and clearly was not intended.
That being said, it was fun, and Blizzard really needs to acknowledge our single target needs a massive buff, like 30% damage to Templars’ Verdict, you know, maybe even take a little bit of power away from wake and put it into a more familiar style of classic ret.
These are just thoughts, rambles in the dark.
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This. The wack-a-mole rush to 5HP to spam HoL was not enjoyable. It removes any semblance of structure and felt awful to play.
Instead of asking for an awful feeling gameplay loop to stick around, we should be asking for HoL and FV to hit harder.
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