This dungeon(s) in itself makes me not want to play any M+ content. I try to get these dungeons completed, I had a 23 lower Kara to start the week. Failed it three times about 30min in. Logged out and just have not bothered to do any more dungeons. Not worth the time.
I understand there is a fine line between enjoyable content and annoying content, but like the horseman for example. You have a soak mechanic during a MASSIVE frontal cone. Most groups are not in voice, that is practically impossible to coordinate if you are an unlucky role on the mechanics. If you are designing ranked / timed content, you cannot have these trash overlaps. You simply cannot. Your lack of effort shows and quite honestly I doubt that will not leak in to Dragonflight because you just don’t care and have not for a very long time.
GJ Blizzard, once again you manage to destroy your own momentum of good faith.
You really do struggle with practically everything.
A) Too long.
B) Trash is too toxic.
C) Bosses are too toxic.
D) For ONE boss you need to know three engagements…? Who put that garbage in?
E) Having pathing that mandates dying after a boss > running back through the dungeon, once again, reevaluate your design team.
27 Likes
Yeah, I haven’t found too many people actually enjoying Kara on any level.
In order to get KSM, you basically have to skip Kara entirely and push the other keys.
People are even fine with Grimrail now, even after all the hate it initially got.
10 Likes
Grimrail got some pretty sweeping changes.
Don’t get me wrong, the train carts and point of view is still terrible, but they at least fixed the last boss.
6 Likes
For this one, I also got 23 lower on my pug alt, so I made a pug of people who do 27s/28 JY to carry it 
then the 24 gambit was no problem.
1 Like
Yup, it’s time for sweeping nerfs. I get why they wouldn’t want to do anything rash the first week of the expac but now the season is probably half over and two of the dungeons are still unplayable.
1 Like
This is a result of them not testing anything.
5 Likes
A +23 is hard to pug with no coordination? This is my shocked face.
16 Likes
What tank did you have? I’ve done it up to a +21 and I’ve never required anyone to soak with me at all and I have had more than enough health to survive, even if I had Mortal Strike.
Karazhan was released when classes had different designs back then and even back then, you didn’t have but a few dozen people run +25 and up keys, the dungeon scaling was vastly different then than it was in BFA and certainly SL.
Karazhan’s Opera has always been like that, even when it was a Raid way back when. Just imagine doing it as a Raid and you had no idea which event you got until Barnes did his monolague. At least now it’s on a weekly rotation 
…
How’s that any different than shroud skip, invis skip, or the mad-dash through trash only to die and let the healer use the soul-stone to rez the group after you’ve wiped. This has always had usages in M+, just because you group never made use of that doesn’t mean they don’t exist or that it isn’t the best approach.
3 Likes
I think the issue a lot of people have with Kara is the individual responsibility.
8 Likes
https://raider.io/mythic-plus-rankings/season-sl-4/all/world/leaderboards-strict/0#content
Note that highest keys done are 32. Lower karazhan’s best timed are 30s.
https://raider.io/mythic-plus-rankings/season-sl-4/return-to-karazhan-lower/world/leaderboards-strict/0
There is a gigantic discrepacy in that place compared to other dungeons. Lower kara also happens to have the least amount of timed keys in the 20-32 M+ bracket. Coincidence? Don’t think so. That place is ridiculously overtuned. Also had a run earlier where opera boss has broom fixiate on tank, who also got water debuff on top of him. How does this happen? Thats blatant fake difficulty right on the spot. Upper kara (Especially Shade of Medivh) and Iron Docks(Trash after 2nd boss and Oshir’s wolves) are also this, albeit to a sighly lesser degree than Lower Kara.
2 Likes
now just imagine that your current frustration is shared by a ton of other M+ players except all they needed to get to that point was the stupid level of repetition, the grouping friction, and the feeling of so much free time being wasted
1 Like
With a half decent group I actually enjoy Kara. I dislike grimrail more than I dislike Kara. What I don’t like is when people come in and know absolutely nothing about it and we wipe instantly. When I get good tanks and dps that knows how to move it’s not that bad. I haven’t done Kara past a 15 though, which I’m sure has much to do with it.
I don’t think any of my toons are geared enough yet to push past that bracket there. But the point definitely stands that it’s harder and can’t be cheesed through like other dungeons. Everyone has to work together so one person just off in their own little world is going to ruin it for everyone else.
1 Like
Frankly, this is what all M+ dungeons should be like, but I’m sure that would be a highly unpopular opinion.
6 Likes
How many times does it need to be nerfed lol
I’d rather kara over grimrail now, cuz at least theres not a camera boss in kara
Exactly, you cannot take content that was never meant for scaling then just turn a knob. You simply cannot. Their inability to acknowledge their own faults it legitimately unprecedented in gaming.
Perhaps a +23 is beyond your ability to complete, and you need to run lower keys to practice more?
5 Likes
TBF though, Karazhan’s opera was one of the easiest encounters.
1 Like
My main complaint about Lower is that it’s so. damn. long. Takes atleast 45 minutes (including getting group together, prep, the actual run) and man. Kind of a slog.
Workshop is my least favorite key though. Lower at least has giant packs to pad on and get those big number happy brain chemicals. 
Yes, if you’re having trouble with a key you can either adjust your strategy and/or try a lower one.