In fact the Cataclysm was is a perfect example of this difference in governing bodies. The Forsaken by and large would of preferred to focus on their own territories before turning their eye to Gilneas, and if they had it certainly wouldn’t of been as a port to fund Garrosh Hellscreams operations in Kali. It’s just that Garrosh had already opened the first salvos of the war and between Wrathgate and his own status as Warchief he could force the Forsakens hand.
Meanwhile Varian wouldn’t of gotten support to invade Lordaeron when his own kingdom was suffering so heavily, but between the Kaldorei being interested in the Gilnean condition and Garrosh giving him the perfect excuse to fight, Varian could be that warmonger consequence free by using the Gilnean kingdoms, now an ally of the Alliance coalition, to springboard an attack on his favorite childhood city.
Just say you’re protecting the Alliance while subtly building bases, transporting massive amounts of troops, and establishing a supply line that you may or may not of already been building around Undercity. Transplant your farmers further up north and say there is a ‘rich new land’ with plenty of farming around Andorhal and ‘maybe’ beyond, bam. Varian wouldn’t of been able to do any of this if Garrosh wasn’t an enabler.
I actually REALLY appreciate all the story beats in Cata with all the political intrigue, it’s a shame that almost all of it’s restrained to the Horde questing.
Except the “reality of it” is like NATO…if you think ANY power, including the US…can impose on NATO ummm yeah that is not really accurate. I can give you over half a dozen cases where the U.S. or other powers had to convince the rest to get on board.
I’d prefer if it the story were written so that one single person didn’t usually start wars. Having hotheads on both sides would help greatly with that.
Also, are you seriously trying to tell me that an aggressive High King (or queen, for that matter) couldn’t help drive a faction war storyline? Think of it: you might get some awesome intra-faction storylines about how he/she gets the rest of the Alliance leaders on board with the initiative, which would put the other racial leaders into the spotlight and highlight differences of opinion within the Alliance. I think it could be awesome.
I am just now playing through WotLK for the first time as Alliance, and I haven’t yet played Cata content from that side, so it’s not obvious to me how this plot hole was created by Varian being aggressive. Please explain?
Because Jaina is a leader of her own state, Varian in Wotlk IS Explicitly NOT her sovereign. Yet between this and the end of ICC, she comes off as abrogating her sovereignty to Varian.
By imposing I specifically was meaning coercion or threats of the use of force. The mandating of will and the expectation that it would be carried out against the objections of the member states
Sure, but the point here is that an ‘evil’ or ‘warmongering’ Alliance High King CAN get the rest of the Alliance to engage in an aggressive war against the Horde.
Even if we agree that they can’t do it by force, so what? They can do it any of a number of other ways.
Its both that’s why its a plot hole. Basically Varian gets angry and won’t help, but at the time he had no way to dictate terms for the whole Alliance. Warmongers in the Alliance should only work if multiple members are onboard, even with the High King.
Well I noted imposing on a single member nation in that case.
But I wouldn’t agree based on the fact the equivalency starts to break down somewhat. I don’t think the nature of Earth’s geopolitical climate translates to Azeroth in the same way beyond the theory of what a military alliance consists of.
Because the range of options does matter. The NEs and the Humans of the Alliance were not going to go to war even if Genn was pushing for it, we saw this in BtS.
He can’t though, by it’s very nature a coalition would fray at the seams if the High King started ordering people around like that and subtly imposing his will, somebody is gonna notice eventually. They need an excuse, either the Horde needs to do something stupid or the Alliance needs to have someone already on the war wagon to begin with.
Which is why I appreciate the Purge of Dalaran, Varian was a warmonger who hid his warmongering well. When Jaina just goes out there and just murders and tortures a bunch of people he has a fit because A, she just screwed up his chance at diplomacy with the Blood Elves, B. the other races of the Alliance are going to have a few questions if you try and dismantle the Horde for defending themselves from THAT.
Where does it allow them to exist. There is no evidence of forsaken living in Alliance lands.
The Alliance isn’t really “tyrannical”, but it has done brutal things to other races.
If you read “A Good War” she explicitly states that what she wanted was to win the war. Her comments about what she achieved when she failed to get what she planned don’t really change that.
I see what you’re saying, but I think blaming it on Varian’s characterization is misplaced. It sounds to me like the sensible thing would have been to put some Theramore reinforcements into the game along with the Kirin Tor mages, no matter what Varian’s personality was like. This makes me wonder if the writers were already thinking of him as “high king” and just hadn’t put it into the game yet.
That’s not a reason not to write a warmongering High King, though. Maybe it’s more work, but it would make for more and richer story.
That’s fine. Let the coalition fray. This only needs to last long enough to start the war, possibly through the length of a single expansion. After which the other leaders can become wise to his schemes, he can unveils his true master plan which puts him in league with the Legion or Old Gods, or whatever.
Admittedly, now the story being written for the Alliance is the exact same garbage the Horde usually gets but speaking hypothetically, it would work.
But that’s the most ingenious part. When, hypothetically, evil Anduin is unveiled as the evil mastermind that he is, the rest of the Alliance members can come together and put a stop to his supposed “Human Empire” and establish their sovereignty via the only thing in WoW that matters, a 10-25 man raid.
Would it though? Not to get too political, but look at how American micro-military campaigns have begun to effect our power and prestige abroad, even brushing up against other nations, not even superpowers, in a war causes people ask some serious questions. Nation sovereignty is not something to take lightly, and even shadow wars have consequences.
If the Alliance gets wise to his schemes, if they realize they have been lured into a war with a global superpower where hundreds of thousands of soldiers have died, why would they even remain in that coalition? The cost would outweigh the benefit. Nevermind what would happen if they actually FAILED on top of that, it barely makes sense for the dictatorial Horde structure as is.