Someone that says something is not up to debate just means they know they don’t have a good argument. I’m not going to waste my time with someone who does this kind of crap.
You never made any argument in the first place. Whether you want to waste your time, or use it as an excuse to bow away from having to concoct one, is irrelevant.
I find this argument more nuanced, because I straddle both sides.
I understand Blizzard is inept at laying out a coherent story for even a single Patch Cycle. So, I am inured to that. I understand there are Mythic Raiders, Heroic Raiders, LFR folks, Casual RPrs, and other folk who just play. Mythic Raiders sometimes see Story stuff others won’t. Normal Mode Raiders see stuff quicker than LFR folks. That is fine by me.
However - I support LFR as a thing. It gives people a chance to see the Story eventually, in an easier difficulty.
Personally, I cleared Normal CN on my Lock before I was caught up on the questing in the Venthyr. So I was waaaay behind in an RP sense - but I understand the staggered nature of the beast.
I have no issue with the sort of staggered and incoherent lay out of the story, simply because it is the nature of a narrative that splits in so many directions, that we have 4 story paths. However, I support LFR as a means for more casual folk to experience the story in an easier yet delayed manner. I support keeping what seem to be the strongest complaints of both sides - I support the status quo - and I see wisdom in Blizzard’s decision.
And I did say LFR.
No they didn’t. You can always just wait to do the campaign.
Not ideal if you’re trying to min/max your solo experience for some reason, but it IS an option.
The difficulty isn’t even the primary hurdle there.
The more important thing is that it gives people a chance to see the story without having to be in a raiding guild or deal with trying to get into a premade group.
2 Likes
Wouldn’t that require you to first already know what’s going on in the campaign, at which point you’ve already got the context out of order anyway?
Like - why would someone randomly delay doing the Campaign if they didn’t know about it?
Because they go to the lore forums. Which everyone in this thread does.
Problem here is why would the necrolords need to know about Kaels situation in nathria for them to have a coherent story? Were told We where going to be working with some random soul, so knowing what Kael went through in nathria has no bearing on the necrolords covenant story, it’s more important for the Venthyr covenant if anything.
Since when were we talking about people who visit the Lore forums, on top of everything else? Also, what if it’s someone who reads Lore forums sometimes, but also avoids spoilers?
Because those are the people in this thread complaining about having to see the story out of order.
You know, the story they already completely know because they’re here in the lore forums reading about it.
Someone who avoids spoilers wouldn’t be posting in a thread titled “Kael’thas in Necrolords Campaign”.
Also nathria and Kaels story in there is not important to the necrolord story to be honest, nothings out of order cause of how the necrolords are introduced to kael.
They effectively did. I mean there was no hint at all that the content was based on the raid.
So even if you think it is OK to force LFR players to do a higher difficulty than they enjoy just to get the story (and I don’t), you still have the issue that they (and anyone who just hadn’t gotten around to doing it on normal, or who’s guild hadn’t just not gotten that far, had no way of knowing before they did quest that Blizzard pushed to them.
Why is knowing what happened to Kael in nathria have any importance to the necrolord campaign? Since that’s what this threads title is about.
It is more of a consequence of blizzard timegating story threads. You could kill Devos in Spires of Ascension before she reveals herself as the leader of the Forsworn in the Kyrian campaign. Likewise you could save Bwonsamdi from Mueh’zala before Bwonsamdi even knew what Mueh’zala was up to when you do the night fae campaign.
But in this case, the delay of the 2nd wing of LFR is more of a side affect of Shadowlands getting delayed. As someone already mentioned, the wing would’ve opened up during the Christmas - New Years period, which is generally seen as a holiday period so there would’ve been a skeleton crew at blizzard to fix any major problems the bosses & trash would have. Which was why it was delayed by a week.
Kael’thas shows up in the necrolord campaign when you confront Kel’thuzad. Since Kel’thuzad has the medallion of domination. Which is the last medallion Renethral needs.
As for the reason to do the Kael’thas encounter in CN beforehand, sometimes it is nice to see the story unfold in chronological order. Which isn’t always possible due to timegating.
Yes but releasing kael has nothing to do with the necrolord campaign at all, it’s merely a thing more important if you’re doing venthyr. Kael is a side character who’s just there to help in the necrolord campaign, so as I said why is seeing kael being freed important to the chronology of the necrolord story? Especially since the necrolords deal with him after his excess anima is purged which is only in the Venthyr story.
I’d understand the argument for chronology of this was for Venthyr but it isn’t, it’s asking about it in context with the necrolord story.
tbh you can kill the guys in revendreth that are trying to get the accusers sinstone before they get said sinstone.
The venthyrs name escapes me but you can kill echelon while doing the questing.
It’s a shame I quite enjoyed his character.
Lord Chamberlain.
And yeah it is odd that you can do Halls of Atonement before you switch sides to the rebellion after finding out what Denatharius is doing.
It is a little bizarre insofar as certain dungeons and the raid are placed story-wise smack-dab in between installments of a Covenant Campaign, without the Campaign at least providing its own “go to this dungeon now” quest to provide some sense of narrative cohesion. Hence even the inverse of running a dungeon “too soon” makes it a bit disjointed. For instance Mueh’zala just suddenly being Bwonsamdi’s prisoner in the Necropolis comes across really weird if you just haven’t had cause to run Da Other Side; a simple quest pointing you to do so (or better yet, pointing you to the already existing Ardenweald quest to do so if you haven’t yet) during the prior chapter could have provided a smoother “feel” to it all.
Admittedly the Kael’thas one is trickier. A quick normal-difficulty dungeon run isn’t usually all that jarring of an imposition, but not everyone who’s just chugging along through their Covenant Campaign is ready to suddenly be thrown headlong into a raid queue - even when it’s just an LFR raid - before they can continue.
Though that might be connected to the delay of Nathria’s release; it wouldn’t surprise me if at some point they may have intended for each Covenant Campaign to have the dungeons and Nathria tied into them via quests the way the later Nightfallen Arcan’dor stuff increasingly sent the player on forays into Legion dungeons and finally the Emerald Nightmare.
1 Like
Someone came here because they got a story beat out of order. That doesn’t say anything about whether they already know, or whether it’s only relevant to people that already know.
Someone who avoids spoilers wouldn’t be posting in a thread titled “Kael’thas in Necrolords Campaign”.
Perhaps. They’d still get the story out of order when playing the game. That is the point, right? This doesn’t magically go away or disappear.
Yes but releasing kael has nothing to do with the necrolord campaign at all
I think they’re pretty clearly hinting at least some level of cross-pollination in the different campaigns that will continue going forward. Kael was a character people encountered well before Shadowlands was even conceived, and people choose Covenants well before they even encounter Kael. It’s the sort of thing that will possibly drive motivation for people to do things like switch Covenants when they uncover a story beat or character they’re dearly into, and these are characters who will probably get involved as we go into future patches, and not just as individual Covenants.
The point of his story is to serve as a foil to what’s going on with Necrolords, and how characters who existed in a similar time (Draka, Kel’Thuzad) developed; you know the backstories of the characters involved, so it’s a bit more meaningful than literally a random extra you never knew existed (like when Pelagos randomly enters a story).
Just because players have the opportunity to get things in the right order doesn’t mean they will. After all, a player might have a legit reason not to do Castle Nathria even if it’s available. But that’s an element of player choice; by contrast, having a wing locked down removes said choice, which should in theory give you things in the right order (like how players don’t unlock certain levelling dungeons until you start the zone), not make it more likely that a certain of the playerbase won’t.
The campaigns are all at the point where we’ve gone past Denathrius’ defeat too, and that would certainly feel weird to me if I was a new player coming in without my prior knowledge already. Especially so if I was a new player starting the game, say, this week. I could be going from the Denathrius reveal, to suddenly being beyond him being gone, all in the span of a day. By contrast, if part of the story was to prompt someone to go defeat him (and he was available now), with an optional skip option, that at least makes things work more logically.
My whole point is it’s about Kaels story in nathria holds no effect on narrative cohesion for the Necrolords, if this topic was about nathrias effect on the venthyrs narrative cohesion then I could see that as an issue.