Ok, but the forest trolls left the horde before that, as thrall mentions he couldn’t believe they were ever part of the horde, in the very first mission of WC3. The forest trolls abandoned the old horde when they saw it was going to lose. Pragmatically that was the best thing to do for survival, but when it comes to the view point of a honor focused race like orcs, that was probably a betrayal they wont forget any time soon.
Besides its not like Thrall was some kind of racist against trolls, he was very friendly to the darkspear on their very first meeting.
That’s my point. You don’t get to say stuff like this and then say you were the ones betrayed.
The Old Horde abandoned the siege of Quel’thalas in order to focus on Lordaeron, thus irritating the Amani who had joined on condition of taking back their homes first.
I mean, given Searing Gorge, the Burning Steppes, and Mount Hyjal we have seen Ragnaros and the fire elementals quite intent on taking their lands back.
It would be more accurate to say they are intent on burning the lands to ash.
Elementals are kind of extremist forces of destruction for the most part. Or at least the ones native to Azeroth are since we have a titan-soul who literally absorbed all the chill and left none for everyone else.
The void lords wanted to consume everything, they would try to consume the cosmos, titan or no titan. The only reason they They have failed to do so thus far is because of the titans/their creations.
Land belongs to whoever can keep. That is certain what the Horde has attempted to do since Warcraft 1.
Titans constructs are not mindless, it is specifically mentioned in chronicles they are sentient. Also, considering all titan contructs were created on Azeroth they are as much native to it as anyone else.
Also, there would no trolls today at all if not for the titans/their titan constructs.
Lastly, the Vrykul and apperent the humans settle in place like Tirisfal long before the troll empire even took shape.
True. They have a very “might makes right” mindset.
That would make for an amusing roleplay character though. A shaman who is intent on reclaiming Azeroth for the elementals because they are a real stickler for land rights.
That seems unlikely to me. All the lore we have on trolls, both before and after Chronicles, is fairly explicit that they are organic beings that originated in Azeroth once it became capable of supporting life.
I find the earth elemental theory compelling though. Chiefly because that is how life happened in Draenor and we have examples of it on Azeroth too. Life energy seems to naturally turn elemental beings into plants and animals once in high enough abundance.
And again, Azeroth would not have been capable of supporting life WITHOUT intervention from the Parthenon. If not due to the Old Gods then because of the four elemental Lords.
Assuming the trolls were Earth elemental turned flesh it would still mean they are indirectly children of the titans. The only reason the elementals started becoming flesh is because the titans banished all the elemental lords.
Even if the Parthenon had zero influence all the trolls would still be children of a Titan, Azeroth is a titan herself.
A quick check of Chronicles also shows human territory was clearly marked as “outside Amani territory”. Even the Chronicles showed large swaths of unclaimed land by the trolls. The assumption that Arathi(and Tirifal proper) were troll lands is purely speculation
Well, not exactly; the great tribes were all centered around Mt. Mugamba when they formed. It wasn’t until after the Aqir Wars that the Zandalari gave them “permission” to go conquer the future locations of Zul’Drak, Zul’Aman and Zul’Gurub as repayment for defeating the Aqir and they each claimed those territories. Presumably the physical adaptations to their new surroundings came after that (and those of Sand Trolls later still, after the Sundering), and most of the trolls were all physiologically the same as the Zandalari during and prior to the Aqir Wars, perhaps notwithstanding the Dark Trolls, as we don’t actually know for sure exactly when they split off from the Zandalari.
Not to mention it was a convenient way to simultaneously protect against any Aqir resurgence and remove the most violent, warmongering tribes from the vicinity of Zandalar so they wouldn’t start causing trouble down the line.
Not quite; native elementals becoming flesh was a symptom of the planetwide explosion of life caused by the spilled blood of Azeroth from her wound, not the absence of the Elemental Lords. Similar to how on Draenor exposure to Nature energies in the form of the Sporemounds’ spores caused the descendant races of Grond to become increasingly organic.
The Curse of Flesh actually seems to have come about in Chronicle before the Trolls.
Additionally, Uldir is noticeably absent from Chronicle. And what’s more, what we have seen recently in the Visions of N’Zoth storyline, Ra-den not knowing about the Chamber of the Heart or MOTHER or Uldir, and the whole “Titans perspective” angle explaining gaps of information in Chronicle, if the Trolls did original from Titan constructs it would not be unexpected despite the omissions so far.
IIRC the questline in Northrend about humanity’s ancestry places it at 15000 years ago? At least that’d be when Ymiron went evil and ordered the cursed children to be culled.
This is true. But the lands they expanded into, as far as we know, were empty aside from the newly re-surged aqir who, as we all know, are biological weapons designed with the express purpose of wiping out life on Azeroth and unsealing the parasitic existential crisis that is the Old Gods.
Which still leaves the trolls as having naturally evolved and then expanded out of a necessity to survive. If they hadn’t fought the aqir all life on Azeroth would’ve been wiped out and the Old Gods would’ve corrupted Azeroth.
This isn’t the same as expanding into another native species’ lands and taking it out of pure expansionism, which is what the posters I was responding to are trying to equate to it.
The Trolls were not above this, though, even among themselves. Before the awakening of Aqir, the Gurubashi, Amani, and Drakkari all made attempts to take Zandalari territory, and territory from each other. And after, the Zandalari tried to take the lands near the Vale of Eternal Blossoms from the Pandaren.
The Yaungol were also around during this time and also had hunting ground conflicts with the Trolls.
Well, the Elemental Lords and the world-soul hogging all the Spirit kept it from happening. Arguably the latter moreso, as it was causing the former to run amok.
We saw with Draenor that an abundance of available Spirit leads to a massive proliferation of organic life, so along with messing up the Azerothian elementals’ balance, Azeroth’s lack of unclaimed Spirit was also inhibiting the ability of organic life to take root and flourish.
Presumably the eruption of life that followed the removal of Y’shaarj and the defeat of the other Old Gods was due to the world-soul’s spilled blood containing both concentrated arcane energy and a bunch of the Spirit that the world-soul had been accumulating over the eons.