Just stopping in to say making mobility abilities part of the DPS rotation feels bad

Idk what’s happening with this class but it’s gone in the wrong direction. It’s not fun to fel rush through your enemies and fight the camera and terrain. It’s not fun to have to use vengeful retreat for the same reasons. Even in Venge tank spec they want you to spend your leaps in the dps rotation. It sucks, stop it.


If we’re just sharing opinions, personally I like having movement abilities adding damage benefit and I enjoy needing to know fights and when/where is safe to move to. It adds more to the game and makes it more rewarding to play. I just don’t like having to put in all that effort for little to no return, I think playing it well should be rewarded with a lot higher numbers. Havoc has been poorly balanced for way to long.


Movement for damage is a bad concept, i agree! And it’s like that for every class BUT DH and the current dev doesn’t care how toxic it is, it’s staying, so at this point, unless we get a new dev, it’s not going anywhere!


If we’re just sharing opinions I think it’d be really fun and rewarding to have a massive dps increase earned through solving math problems that are partially hidden by the UI.

Another idea could be a mavis beacon typing program integrated into the rotation so the higher WPM you can copy from the text, the higher your dps bonus will go. All while you’re playing WoW! That’d be so much fun.

Or solving sudoku puzzles mid boss fight for dps increase! So many great opportunities for “skill expression!”


I think VR is one of the few abilities in the dh toolkit that allows for some skill expression, especially since you can cast spells during its animation. I also think it’s a pretty satisfying spell to use. There are some bosses where it feels impossible to use like the first boss in VP, but overall I wouldn’t want it removed from our rotation.

Also, the reason why our mobility is so good is because it’s tied to our rotation. Do you really think they’ll keep fel rush the same cd as it is now if it wasn’t tied to our dps?


You’re not going to change the “new” class fantasy of Havoc.

Some people will show around telling you that “You have options to remove mobility that are not far behind” but the fact is the shadow of “movement as DPS” will always be there.

I’ve always said that it just doesn’t work in raids, either from a balance of a gameplay perspective, but there’re people that love it, so there’s little you can do about it. Most of all, it seems the developer in charge of DHs loves this concept, so yeah.

If you can’t stand the concept, I suggest you reroll. It’s not going away.

Yeah I got to say that it doesn’t make sense when you have raid fights that make it impossible to use that rotation. Not every fight but there are some. Even in the fights where you are punished less, it adds a degree of difficulty, for what?

It’s fine in the open world but it doesn’t really work in raids. This has to be obvious, which begs the question, why?


Sounds good. Let’s add Divine Steed to Paladin’s rotation while we are at. Let’s not let the Warlock’s feel left out either, add demonic Gateway to their rotation. Every class should share in the fun.


Would you be ok with them turning fel rush into a 20 second cd then, to be more in line with other classes?

Would you be okay with bringing Lay On Hands and Divine Shield more in line with other classes?


Would it make you feel better if I posted from my DH as well? WoW forums make it a pain to swap characters around. But also adding a damage component and knock back cancel to divine steed would be freaking amazing for paladin. Especially if it gave an extra buff or debuff to the enemy.

I don’t understand the difficulty people have with using VR or FR during fights, especially in raid, M+ I get because some old fights (Vortex Pinnacle) have bosses you literally can not use the abilities on but current stuff I haven’t come across 1 that would be that restrictive. I can understand not wanting to, because it doesn’t fit your playstyle, but that’s no different than say hating classes that have energy regen because you don’t like having dead time where you don’t hit keys (Me the ADD is real) I can not play rogue because of this but I’m not going to go ask them to remake rogue for me… I go and find classes or specs I enjoy playing.

Sure. Post raid logs while you are at.

I mean you can easily search my raid logs yourself. I’m on Moonrunner, guild is visible. You can also pull my Raider .io that lists my M+ and my DH although I didn’t do anything in 10.1 on it. I didn’t do a lot at all in 10.1 really.

I’m just adding that movement used for dps is a terrible design, and it was changed from literally every other class but DH! It’s not fun and it’s not cool!


Don’t forget to require blinking through targets for the mages! That’ll be a fun way to express skill.


i also like momentum and movement based rotation. it makes havoc unique and different from all the other specs that just stand around and do damage. it makes it dynamic. at this point all the poeple who dislike current havoc should play one of the many many many dps specs that just stands still


Nobody stands still. We haven’t been able to for years due the ever increasing amount of mechanics and swirlies we need to either dodge or get in.

These specs that “just sit still” only exist in your mind. We’re not mad that we’re using our movement abilities. We’re mad that we have to use our movement abilities for doing damage instead of doing mechanics/dodging.

It’s really handy to have your movement ability off cooldown when you need to move far/quickly for a mechanic. Every other class can save theirs for these times. Except us, because we used ours in our dps rotation. How does this not compute for you I’ll never understand but you go on keep running your mouth without understanding the actual issue.


I don’t understand how you’re running into an issue of not having a movement ability available to avoid a mechanic. FR is 2 charges with under a 9 second recharge when you have an evoker. You also have VR on a 25 second CD and the Hunt for movement. If you’re unable to understand a fight well enough to know if you need to hold off on FR for 1 or 2 seconds so you have a charge up to avoid a mechanic the issue isn’t the class design. Heck you can even double jump and cancel glide and have more movement than some classes movement abilities.

So if I’m unable to understand the fight well enough to know when to not use my class movement that is designed for both dps and movement, unlike other classes that can hold theirs for movement….the issue isn’t class design?

Congratulations on being a mental gymnast!


What is it about havoc that makes you want to stay with it even when it’s :100: apparent the devs like the idea of a zippy movement based high skill floor DPS? I mean if they removed the momentum style how are we any different than fury warriors?

I played ret in 10.1 as dps in raid and veng as mythic+, if you want fast paced dps that don’t require movement based skills to increase DPS, there are plenty out there. If they removed this, I don’t see how we aren’t just a clone of another DPS like ret or fury.

Personally I’m looking forward to it. I think being able to pool the momentum buff by syncing fel rush, hunt, and VR will be much easier to manage than the 6s buff we had in 10.1. That maintenance buff was just simply awful. In 10.2, at least we can watch for an upcoming mechanic and then time the chain movements effectively.

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