Even mana regen is off in Classic. The old client/server structure and old hardware caused the signal to begin regen to be delayed slightly and inconsistently at times. Now everything just runs too smooth and there’s (pretty much) instant, accurate feedback and performance. Damage was spikey for similar reasons back then too. Both of those added to ‘challenge’ as well as all the actual buffs and nerfs of 1.12.
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The OP is wrong and right. Everything elite is nerfed in classic. However, it was definitely not a product of patch 1.12. Normal mobs seem to be okay. Aside from being able to jump layers, it is on target with the original. Dungeons and raids are most likely off. People should not be able to roll through raids with characters under level 60 and in greens. Those old raids kept their punch even through TBC. I knew a few guilds in their TBC epix that though they would faceroll though Naxx at the end of TBC before it got removed and they got wrecked. You still hand to know the mechanics of those fights.
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And which of those pertains to world mobs and Ragnaros again? I don’t see a single “nerf” to difficulty, only adjustments on respawn timers. You mention Rag got a minor nerf but the numbers aren’t present, could we have a link to your patch note sources for this? Before MoP everything was painstakingly recorded and brought to the public, find it hard to believe there wasn’t a value on that “minor rag nerf”.
Edit: Went on wayback, the additions to 1.5 for Molten Core were as follows from the original patch notes.
Raids & Dungeons
- Molten Core
- Firesworns that are moved too far away from Garr will now become quite enraged until they move closer to Garr.
- The eruptions from the lava in Ragnaros’s Lair will now always happen while Ragnaros is in combat. However, these lava eruptions occur less frequently, do less damage, and the damage they inflict is now resistable.
- The maximum range of the Wrath of Ragnaros spell has been increased.
- Additional new raid items have been added to the treasure lists for Azuregos, Lord Kazzak, and bosses in Molten Core.
They stabilized a mechanic that occurred outside of combat, interesting that you left out the buff from enraging Garrs adds so you couldn’t split. Or the fact that Rag’s range was increased. Something that made the fights themselves harder than the “pre-nerfed” versions. Stabilizing the game for the way they designed fights is NOT nerfing, world mobs did not receive an overall nerf, the only argument that could be made here is that they made it easier to get gear, which again, doesn’t mean the content is nerfed, just means the gearing time has been nerfed, which is a whole other argument.
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^^^^This.^^^^
1.1>1.12 patch progression, 1.12 static patch, frankenpatch, or a custom tuned patch to compensate for modern rigs, connections, and player knowledge?
It was quite a debate with #nochanges being the loudest. Now it is what it is because blizz settled the debate and went with static 1.12 talents, itemization and content rolled out “Vanilla like”.
This was argued over many threads. From talents to itemization to threat mechanics to existing knowledge. You missed the boat bro.
Be here for the TBC/Wrath debates because now they are talking changes. Lol.
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Is that why as a level 20 warrior it’s a struggle to fight two equal level mobs?
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That is odd because he did exactly what you claimed he didn’t do this morning, i.e run after people into the inn and kill them. I was off to the side and he killed me - where the guards off duty then ?
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Also, since I had to go all the way back to find this stuff I figured I’d link it and let everybody else enjoy the nostalgia. https://web.archive.org/web/20071105055854/http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/patchnotes/patch1p11.html seems like all the links at the top work fine even though it’s the BC version of the site.
Anyway, interestingly enough, I didn’t realize how big of a problem raid flooding was, they made 2 individual attempts to fix it, making the raids significantly harder btw since this prevents flooding. The big one being in 1.11:
- Instituted an anti-exploit measure on certain encounters (almost entirely raid bosses). These encounters will prevent people from zoning into the instance while that encounter is engaged. If you attempt to zone into the instance while that encounter is engaged, you will be resurrected at the outside entrance. We will be making adjustments to the entrances to Molten Core and Blackwing Lair to accommodate this change. Combat resurrections, soulstones, reincarnate, etc. will still work fine. This is primarily to combat graveyard rushing in instances.
But also even in 1.09, there were issues with groups keeping people out of combat to res and it was addressed:
Molten Core
- It should now be very difficult to remain out of combat while fighting the bosses in Molten Core.
I would say forcing players to complete the fight as a single pull, not a flood of people releasing/being ressed and running back, makes the fight significantly harder than, once you’re dead you’re dead minus the mass amounts of resses available with all the druids/warlocks before the advent of shared bres timers. But I suppose that’s just a personal opinion.
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Its pretty easy for sure. Not really any content, especially while leveling, outside of farming quest mobs.
I doubt the “Pre-BC” Nerf would make that any different.
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Everyone screamed and cried at the possibility of Blizzard making changes to their precious game, and now that Blizzard hasn’t made any changes, that’s suddenly a bad thing?
You got what you asked for. As in the words of every Classic player berating new players struggling with the game:
“lol go back to retail then”
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THeres no way that classic will live up to your memories of vanilla because we are more advanced.
- Gaming mice, and keyboards make things so much easier to manage.
- Full on guides to every boss fight at the touch of a button. 13ish years ago the internet wasnt the beast it is today.
- Better addons. Many of the addons we use today are being brought to classic. DBM helps fights immensly.
- The fights in later expansions are actually harder than Vanilla fight mechanically, we’re used to those fights so classic doesnt pose that big of a challenge.
Classic was never going to be Vanilla 2.0 because in Vanilla you were in the dark about everything and people in general sucked at games. We have professional gamers now, and people who’s hobby is video games. When wow started video games were a side thing, some spent more time but 10x(at least) more people play now.
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I started in 1.6 and we still had a hard time doing many dungeons.
As a warrior I am still dying when fighting two mobs out in the world.
Let’s not look, as people invariably do in WoW, at what the 1% of progress pushers are doing, and instead focus on the main bulk of so-called ‘casuals’.
This. Absolutely this.
Classic is never going to be the game you first experienced back in 2004 and it was a pipe dream to ever think anybody could recapture that magic. I said this in another thread, but part of Vanilla’s difficulty and complexity is intrinsic to technology as it was back then. Unless you’re running the game on a Gateway with AOL, this game isn’t going to be the same, and no amount of tuning Blizzard does on their end can change any of that. We know better. We’ve played raids with harder mechanics and we’ve archived every bit about Vanilla raids on the internet. There’s nothing left to discover.
Old School Runescape suffers from the same thing: The game is significantly harder than its modern counterpart, but everyone who plays it knows everything about the game, what to do, how to level faster, how to make money faster, and so forth.
And who’s to say the raids still won’t be a challenge? I don’t deny there are nerfs, but you’re basing the difficulty of a raid on people who push some of the hardest content WoW has to offer. These people are probably keen to every aspect of every WoW raid. To say these raids are going to be easy for everyone on the premise that the top players made it look easy, is to obfuscate what the difficulty will be like.
These are the same people who made level 60 by the end of the week. Are you going to say leveling is easy too? Because from my experience, everyone I’ve come across has been struggling at some point or another.
This just feels like another gatekeeping, elitist post about Classic. If it’s too hard for people to come to terms that Classic will never be like Vanilla, then maybe Brack was right.
“You think you do, but you don’t.”
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On Mannoroth, we had Semi-Pugs doing it. 1.12 was always going to be a steam roll. I just can’t imagine this bad. Dungeons are completely irrelevant now.
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The very first thing I noticed was how easy dungeons were. I mean we were clearing dungeons that were beyond our level range with extreme ease. And now to see that raids are equally as easy has dampered a lot of the excite I had for Classic. If dungeons and raids are easy then what is there even to look forward to once we hit 60? PvP is nice but that gets old after a while. I want to enjoy both pve and pvp content, but currently pve is just devoid of any kind of challenge.
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This game isn’t easy. I’m dying fairly frequently, and the time it’s taking to progress is significant!
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Yeah but those boys who played Vanilla hardcore and played on private servers for years are telling you it’s easy, therefore that makes you a NOOB.
/s
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Yeah, I’ve noticed differences too. After running WC a couple times last night it was pretty obvious things are different. We were able to get through it with 4 people and no real CC to speak of without issues. I thought it was just because we’re better players, but it wasn’t only that with just me on Affliction and a Rogue for DPS. Something’s changed.
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Nah, it just means I have a life.
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LoL, I highly doubt it, the reason it was hard was not due to mechanics, it was due to how hard the damage hit and the dps checks. This required gear and the ability to hold threat. A whole truck load of Talents existed in 1.12 that did not exist in 1.4 things like Shield Slam for example. Holding threat in 1.12 was substantially easier due to the massive changes.
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