This ability has been reworked into the dirt, it’s always a problem when someone talks about Outlaw issues, and I honestly don’t think this new one is going to help it any way.
You listened to us when we complained about needing to rely on vanish, yet here you are still ignoring and trying to make it work. Just let it die already, please.
I am inclined to agree.
We are back full circle to where we started in Legion alpha. Minus the utility of a HoT from a RTB buff we are back to single buff rolls. The best one will be triple threat aka CDR assuming it is not nerfed to the ground lol so yeah back to fishing for RTB buffs or which ever one or two are the best out of the four right now.
Yeah, the fact the rolls are still random just leads to fishing for a specific buff. The current change is the same issue with a new coat of paint. The RNG isn’t fun, and the class fantasy part of it is just a terrible excuse. Not a single person I know thinks of “Outlaw” and fondly thinks of the dice rolls as a component.
Honestly, half of these should just be built into the kit’s base power or guaranteed during ADR windows. There just isn’t a reason, if you’re trying to “simplify” the spec, to continue to bog the kit down with random variance that is entirely out of your control.
At least in Legion they eventually added the possibility of multiple buff rolls like three buffs and six buffs so the spec wasn’t so flat line and static.
But fishing for buffs isn’t interesting game play but these devs think it is the core fantasy of the spec which is rubbish!
The version they are showing just doesn’t make sense either. They flatly say in their intention is “Maintaining it is extremely important, and different levels change the feel and pacing of your rotation.”
It’s about “maintaining” that buff that you want, but what way are they designing to make sure we can upkeep high rolls?
Oh. They aren’t designing a way to keep it up perpetually… Which makes the design flawed from the start.
Don’t sit here and tell me that something is “extremely important” to keep up, but give me literally no way to maintain said “important” thing that you’re expecting me to have.
I understand the concept of each buff changing how you play but the problem is that single buff rolls means 1 or 2 out of the four will still be the best and you will be looking for those 1 or 2 buffs. And coupled with KIR talent you will want to maintain Triple Threat and/or Double Trouble most likely if I was to speculate.
On the surface Jackpot 10% crit chance seems low for a single buff roll. And One of a Kind 20% increased chance for second Sinister Strike with opportunity proc while good it is not on the same level as Triple Threat RTB 30% CDR or Double Trouble extra CP generation from Sinister Strike/Ambush with 15% extra damage.
We already see a disparity between buffs but it is early alpha but I can see where this is going already lol…
because rtb was never the main problem with outlaw, the damage variance between rolls were minimal. i dont think this time is any different
i will say that they did fix one of the main issue with outlaw and have ss able to opp proc 50% of the time now
not to mention the energy deficit
its not even random, your not going to be fishing for anything. if you roll a 3 you get everything under a three
but 3 and 4 are kinda just bonuses, your mostly want to roll a 2 which is easy with new talents
Okay if the damage difference is small get rid of it.
It’s the worst ability in the game and has push a leash on outlaw for….since the start of legion
So minimal that back in Legion we’d dump full combo points into the ability just to get a good set of rolls.
So minimal that we have multiple talents trying to minimize the amount of pain we get from bad rolls.
So minimal that KiR builds completely outshine any that don’t use it.
Saying that RtB and the buffs it gives, in the current form, only has a minimal impact on DPS is insane imo. Might be different with the new set of buffs that’re coming, but considering how many times they’ve reworked the ability and it’s still the big sore spot for Outlaw, I don’t have big hopes.
Allow me to be a single person. The dice rolls were an incredibly fun and appealing part of Outtlaw. Since there’s been very little variance between the different buffs for a while now, the mechanic has been basically optimizing the number of buffs you can hold on to. Late in the expac, a number of Outlaw builds became competitive between Trickster/Fatebound and Hi-Op/KiR. I opted before the Trickster KiR build because holy crap it was fun chasing those 5/6 rolls. Between the dumbing down of rolls, elimination of Crackshot windows, and removal of Underhanded Upper Hand they’ve impressively gotten rid of everything that made this spec fun.
I’ve heard nothing and seen nothing but the opposite from this season w/ neither tier sets helping hidden op builds.
I’m going to miss these in essence. I think having Vanish be an offensive CD for outlaw was not a good idea, but I’d like to see Crackshot come back as a non-vanish reliant talent.
this one does hurt tho.
Its called Ace Up Your Sleeve in the Midnight Talent tree.
Not sure why you’re mentioning the different builds when I was talking about RtB buffs.
As for builds though, I believe Outlaw currently has four viable builds between Hi-Op Fatebound, Hi-Op Trickster, KiR Fatebound and KiR Trickster. When I say viable, I don’t mean that they’re all the best and you can freely switch between any of them. More that you won’t be trolling your group if you don’t like playing with the added complexity of KiR or Killing Spree. Outside of The Race and title keys, you should be fine playing any of these. There’s always going to be a mathematically best one though.
In my opinion, we already had the solution when Shadow Dance was in the class tree. When SD was in the class tree, Sub still had all the talents to buff it to hell and back and give themselves a second charge, but it let Outlaw and Sin do the stealth related things they needed to do while in combat. I think the ideal world would be to have vanish be a defensive/utility button for all three specs, but Shadow Dance be the way to let the specs do their combat related stealth things, like Crackhead windows or dropping an Imp Garrote before Deathmark. I just don’t know how to make it so that Vanish is defensive/utility only and can’t be abused as just another offensive cooldown. Maybe Vanish forcibly pacifies you for some amount of time (like 6-8 seconds) out of everything but a few utility buttons? Pretty much just Sap and movement abilities I guess.
That is NOT the same at all. Getting completely random resets is not the same as setting up a damage window and trying to squeeze it for all its worth.
KIR is the only real viable build in PVE so that just proves the point that we are back to square one of legion alpha/beta.
They can make individual buffs strong but it means you will fish or the combos of them aka they call them stages now.
Or, if individually they are weak but collectively strong it means you are looking for the best combo of buffs still.
Not sure how you can avoid variance like this with swings in performance. That is why elemental shamans lost that type of game play that they had in MoP and onwards because the RNG was too much according to elementalQT.
It’s the best but HO still just about viable. It’s just less fun than KiR now anyway so it’s redundant. I’d only really recommend it if you just despise KiR.
why get rid of it when theres a whole lot of people who like it.
this mentality is why i dislike the forums. if you personally dont like it then you want to get rid of it ruining the fun of others despite great lengths being made to make it digestible for all players
this gotcha isnt the gotcha you think it is.
outlaw is being reverted back to a state more similar to SL outlaw, if you still cant hack it then frankly you should probably play another spec
that was nearly 20 years ago, im talking about now
yes multiple specs have talents that build upon a specific button. paladin has 3-4 buttons for divine steed. your point?
kir and ho builds had less than a 5% difference for two expansion. this patch being the only time kir outshines ho.
last season ho was actually better. its crazy yall didnt take advantage of the main season where you could just roll off rtb if you didnt have 4 buffs for supercharger, im actually shocked yall let your misinfo warp reality to the point you think rtb is anywhere near as bad as it used to be
new season means new tiersets props up different build. last season was ho, this season is kir. you missed the ho season, now your bitter and angry that its kir season.
this is a big reason why adren was 90+% uptime tho, that was an actual problem with the spec. craaaaaaaaaaaazy youd miss that but actively wish for rtb to be deleted
nah apparently 3-5% range difference is to much for people doing weekly 10’s
shhh i dont think people realize this. (granted this isnt much of a issue for outlaw players cause it keeps t he reactivity of crackshot which was the reason why it was liked.)
I do agree a lot of QOL stuff is lost but early alpha the focus is really to put together a tree first and then refine the details and then tuning IMO.
Dont think you fish really. Always will have level one up basically now. Instead of looking for certain buffs, it’s just going up levels.
Yes, terrible ability since day 1 - there is so much more cool fantasy that can be had with pirates than a lame dice rolling ability.
Not even a rogue and I completely hate the skill. Every other post is to delete rtb, snd, thistle tea, shadow heart, shadowy duel. Instead of saying what type of skills you want to leave your class how bout you start asking for the ones that stay. Seems it will be so much easier that way