My DH currently dual wields Heroic Divers Follys, I just got a 445 non-corrupted weapon, I’m leaning towards just keeping both divers, but wondering if it’s worth it and to just use one on the off hand. Secondaries really don’t factor in as they’re both Haste/Mastery, if it had vers on it I probably wouldn’t think twice.
And yes I realize sim it is probably the answer, but I don’t have the addon to use whats in my bags so when I raidbot it I just get whats equipped and I’m at work for the next 8 hours.
This is her, I plan on cleansing the bracers I just got out of today’s chest and wearing a r2 tentacle corruption ring with vers so I have some changing around to do from what I logged out wearing.
I would say probably to put the 445 in the mainhand. Diver’s folly is nice, but you get enough strait weapon damage that I would think that using the 445 would be an upgrade, plus the amount of stats increase should also overcome the diver’s folly proc.
Best bet is to sim it and see, but I’m willing to bet the 445 is an upgrade.
ok, I always thought barrage was pretty good and its an extra button, how much better is trail of ruin in comparison? like no contest or close enough to be a preference
Main hand weapon damage is our highest stat priority by far no matter what your other items are, so if the difference in it compared to your other weapon is big, then most likely you will want to use the weapon with the highest damage for that slot for single target damage.
On cleave/AoE 430 is not that far away from 445 and Diver’s Folly has an amazing proc for these situations and you will most likely still use it for M+ and heavy AoE fights.
Trail of Ruin is best for single target damage, no discussions. Fel Barrage is better on heavy AoE. Fights like Vexiona, Hive Mind and Carapace of N’zoth will have Fel Barrage far outshining Trail of Ruin. Also very good on Fortified M+ weeks, except for dungeons low on thrash like King’s Rest.
Normally Fel Barrage will almost every time outdamage Trail of Ruin in M+, but it’s not always the best choice, so you need to know what pulls your tank is going for, know when/where to use it if you do take it and factor in what builds your teammates are going for as well as how high the key you are doing is and what affixes are there for the week.
Trail still wins for sustained AoE. Fel Barrage is most powerful when you’re talking about burst AoE. If you’re fighting a cluster of targets for 60s+ at a time, Trail still wins, for the same reason it wins in single target. If, however, you’ve got regular waves of targets that aren’t always present, or you’re pulling a massive group and bursting them down, Fel Barrage can be exceptionally powerful.
Which of the two is preferable in M+ is hotly debated, and to some extent depends on your group, which instance you’re doing, and your tank’s pull pattern. If your tank pulls with it in mind, and the instance lends itself to it, Fel Barrage can be substantially more potent than Trail. It’s also worth noting that the more downtime you have, the better Fel Barrage becomes even on total damage per minute, because it can continue ticking down its CD while you’re running between backs, while Trail is simply not doing damage during that time.
In raids, Trail is definitely the default in nearly all situations. It takes a particular type of fight to make Fel Barrage beat it. One that I can remember was mythic Opulence, since that had a bunch of adds spawn in the final phase exactly every 60s, and it was critical to burst them down quickly.
It’s also worth noting that you should always cast Fel Barrage during a Demonic meta window. Fel Barrage scales absurdly well with haste (it’s literally a 1:1 increase to total damage done, 50% haste = 50% more total damage to each target from Fel Barrage), and you’ll have both Meta’s 25% haste bonus and the gigantic haste kick from Furious Gaze during that Demonic window. With the right gear, you can nearly double the damage done by Fel Barrage compared to casting it outside that window*.
*Example, let’s say you have 1020 haste rating baseline (15%), and 3 Furious Gaze traits that grant 1020 rating each (~440 itemlevel). 1020 haste is 1020/68 = 15% haste, so Fel Barrage does 115% of normal damage. With all 3 Furious Gaze, you’d instead have 4080 rating, which is 60% haste. Meta also grants 25%, and that’s multiplicative, giving you a total of 1 - (1.6 * 1.25) = 100% haste, meaning Fel Barrage is dealing 200% of normal damage. 200% / 115% = 173.9% = 73.9% additional damage done by casting it inside Demonic window, compared to casting it outside of that window.
That’s pretty much what I said above in comparison to each talent. High M+ keys are usually “pull a bunch of stuff and burst everything down” except on some specific affixes. And all fights I cited above also have very heavy burst add phases such as Hive Mind summons, Vexiona adds spawning from the portal and Carapace of N’zoth on both tentacles on phase 1 and adds on phase 3.
You pretty much want Trail of Ruin on every other fight plus most Tyrannical keys. On some very specific dungeons such as Motherload, you always start with Fel Barrage, cast Hearthstone after second boss and switch to Trail (plus essences/trinkets/whatever). It really depends on what you have in your group, what you are doing and what you want to go for. I specifically really like how my numbers spike up when I cast Fel Barrage, so if my group allows for it, I will pretty much always want to bring it for keys just for fun.
Also good explanation on Fel Barrage. It’s kinda crazy how much damage I can pull off when we Lust + Eye Beam + haste trinket proc from Ra-den + potion of proximity + using Razor Coral for the crit. My numbers quite literally go crazy, and if you add a lucky Twilight Devastation proc on top of it then I don’t think anyone else can keep up with me on burst AoE in my group.
If you were a spec that used different enchants/buffs on weapons (when that was a thing, like rogues and their poisons), then it did matter. However, with hit speed on weapons being normalized, it no longer matters which weapon has which enchant.
Even that didn’t really matter. The only time that it has mattered which weapon was enchanted with what was when the procs were either fixed proc rate (ex. poisons), or when the procs were base PPM (ex. Windfury), before they thought up RPPM. In both cases, since most abilities used your mainhand weapon (ex. Sinister Strike), you wanted your more critical or potent proc on that weapon, as your abilities would have the same chance to proc as your melee attacks.
Now that basically everything is on RPPM, it never matters anymore. Even if an ability attacks with your mainhand and not offhand (example, Blade Dance), that doesn’t alter the average observed procs per minute. RPPM was specifically designed to address issues with weapon-based proccing, and it has done an exemplary job of it.
Incidentally, one place this does still matter is for Frost DKs. They traditionally use both Razorice and Fallen Crusader. Fallen Crusader is RPPM, but Razorice is a flat buff to the damage done by the weapon, in addition to stacking a debuff. The debuff portion doesn’t matter, but the damage portion does. Affixing Razorice to your main hand both doubles the benefit of that damage bonus (offhands deal half damage), and causes it to apply on weapon strikes that only use your main hand weapon (though there aren’t a ton of those for Frost, I believe Death Strike and Frostscythe are the only noteworthy ones). Fallen Crusader being on your offhand doesn’t affect its average proc interval in the slightest, since it’s RPPM.
Eh, it’s pretty close. Vers/Deadly sims at <20 DPS ahead of Force/Vers for me. The standard deviation on these sim is about 1000 DPS, so we’re deep inside the error bars here. Any combination of the 3 is sufficient for the purposes of maximization, statistically speaking*.
*At least, based on my sim results. Your results may vary, depending on your gear distribution.
I sim minus 500 over Deadly Navigation and minus 1700 over Versatile Navigation. Usually the higher your ilvl, the bigger the difference between Navigations and Force Multiplier. As usual, the best course of action is still to sim yourself.
If you don’t have the addon, you can always look your character up on Raidbots and gear compare the same weapons with either enchants.