I raid on two different severs. Hyjal US and Illidan US. Both guilds I raid with are 10/10 heroic and 1 is 1/10 Mythic the other is 3/10 Mythic.
Both guilds were already struggling recruiting new players with how things are in the game right now. Attendance is also another huge problem making raiding extremely difficult for those of us still toughing out the current state of the game and community. Both guilds want to push Mythic progression and right now pugging is our best bet to get warm bodies in the raids. How ever Mythic raid lockout is something that is strangling our efforts. When the game was healthy and the player pool was much much greater than it currently is. Pugging players for a Mythic raid was a challenge but not completely impossible. But now if you kill a boss or two then no one wants to be saved to your raid lockout. Blizzard you gotta help us out here. We are still trying to enjoy the game and just do the content. But we need you guys to step up and make the changes that need to be made in order for us to stay alive as guilds. Because right now guilds are crumbling left and right across all the servers. Even High pop servers feel like ghost towns right now. Help us help you. If you want WoW to continue to be a thing then you gotta step up and help the players keep the guilds going. Guilds are the community in this game. Some of us still want to see the game come back and grow again. But we can’t do it alone man. Please remove the blocks stopping us from getting ahead please.
It is time to remove the faction wall.
Also allow cross server guilds.
Mythic raiding and pugging are largely incompatible. If your players aren’t showing up reliably, they aren’t Mythic raiders. The reason that so many guilds like yours are 3/10 is because the fights start getting difficult after that, and not only require talented players, but also players who show up regularly and progress with the team.
You are correct to point out the importance of guilds to the game. Removing raid lockouts would destroy the remaining guilds utterly, by taking one of the last dedicated social elements in the game, and smashing it completely by turning it into Yet Another Pugging Experience.
I should also add that this ALWAYS comes up the moment cross-realm is enabled. You can practically set your watch by it. As soon as they announced that Hall of Fame had filled up last week, we all said, “Look out! Here come the threads complaining about raid ID’s!” And here we are.
By your own logic aren’t Mythic raiders people who want to push content? Well if you have attendance issues and the game is literally bleeding players left and right. It doesn’t exactly encourage those kinds of players to stick around either now. Also last I checked Mythic raiding can be done at anyone’s pace. Guilds that push hard and fast are the same ones doing sales runs for gold right now. And most of their players only show up for the sales runs then logout for other games till new content drops. And I honestly don’t see how removing raid lockouts affects you in anyway. If anything if your selling carry’s it would open up allot more options with how cross realm Mythic is opened and the WoW token being a thing. So elitist much?
If you want to push content, terrific. I salute you.
Pugging is not the way to do that. Mythic progression after the first few freebie bosses requires a dedicated team. Not a pug.
Off topic but yeah I completely agree. Honestly I have played since the tail end of BC just before Wrath. Faction stuff used to matter to the community. But these days I don’t hear anyone really caring about factions anymore. They just want to fill raids and increase M+ talent options. The whole Horde vs Alliance stuff has completely backfired because of the Sylvanas story line. And Blizzard’s handling of the Lore. No one cares anymore. Old gods made irrelevant and death of NPC’s is also pointless thanks to the Shadowlands. No one is TRULY dead anymore. They can just be pull out at any point to play the nostalgia card. And with how imbalanced the factions are right now. Horde players seriously just feel sorry for Alliance players. Because Alliance is basically dead player count wise. I see Alliance refugees all the time talking about how dead it is over there. So yeah removing factions and just letting everyone play together would be a HUGE thing for WoW. But Blizzard is too deeply entrenched on this subject to actually pull the trigger I think. But who knows right?
I still think Mythic should reward better cosmetic gear but equal power ilvl wise, maybe it should also reward more loot but having such a massive range of ilvl gear inflation tier to tier is bad.
They would still have to be equally as talented as the actual mythic raiders that killed it. I for one would love to see the mythic lockout removed. Would also make it easier for people to trial with multiple raid teams.
Then it doesn’t matter because unless you are advocating for progression to only be for “traditional raid teams” then pugs just wouldn’t be able to progress past the first 3.
LOL yeah pugging Mythic Xanesh was kind of hard, it was difficult to get everyone coordinated. We took like 20 wipes before we could kill it. It worked out a little better than raiding in a set group though because you could always kick someone who is underperforming or consistently making the same mistake and get someone else in there.
Now that cross-realm is out, I might start pugging mythic on my hordey. Hopefully people sign 
And remove race/class restrictions
One Azeroth x-pack, lets go!
I get what they were trying to do with mythic, but it only “worked” (barely) when the game was in a healthy state. Right now with the game hemorrhaging subs so badly, what was once prestigious is now suffocating. A friend of mine has been through five Mythic raiding guilds that had cleared Mythic from Legion to now but all have simply crumbled to dust with the current game being as unfriendly as it is.
Blizzard somehow managed to make a Wildstar mistake and put all of their eggs into the basket of people caring about Mythic to solve certain issues, and now there’s nothing left for the rest of the game to feed on. Even the Mythic groups are now suffering due to lack of bodies.
First and most likely best step is to knock down the faction wall. After that, we can see how the population does when the best players on both sides have a larger pool to draw from.
gonna stop you right there.
mythic raiding is about so much more than just getting warm bodies in the raid.
pugging is never the best way. proper recruiting is.
Same people who want queue-in-pugs for high level m+ always argue for this stuff. It was never intended to be pugged at the very highest levels, which includes mythic raiding.
Maybe? There are plenty of heroic only guilds. I would guess probably more than mythic guilds.
There are also quite a few players capable of raiding mythic, but incapable/unwilling to commit to fixed hours for “raiding” (i.e. gaming).
There is definitely something to be said for lockouts though. If only to curb the rotating door of players coming in for 1 boss and dropping out, which extends a pug raid time dramatically (especially w/o a lock).
Will never happen, might as well stop here.
There are better arguments to change the way mythic lockouts work. But I don’t think holding a lockout hostage happens enough for people to care.
then they’re not going to get much further than the first few mythic bosses. different lockout rules aren’t going to change that.
I realistically can’t deny this. I’ve never, in my entire 17 year off-and-on journey throughout WoW, been in a guild that didn’t have at least a couple players who were nearly intolerable but because I liked almost everyone else and wanted to keep playing the game, I dealt with. I would have far more fun if I could take the nuclear option, issue an ultimatum, and feel confident that no matter what happens I’ll still be able to get my raids in for the week.
Sadly, the fabric of this game is reliant on a large number of players tolerating bad and toxic players who have enmeshed themselves into these guilds. If you could cut the cord with no consequences, many raid guilds would be forced to get rid of their more toxic players, and those toxic players wouldn’t realistically be able to find a home, they’d quit the game, that would drive down subs, and that’s not something Blizzard wants to happen.
Making everyone else less happy in order to keep toxic players happy and subbing is more profitable for Blizzard, so we realistically won’t see a change.
At least M+ exists. I can Mythic Raid on the side for fun casually, not really invest myself in it or take it seriously, and then push M+ with only players I enjoy playing with.
Yeah, that’s true. Not only for learning the fights, but also because changing the comp changes the timings, and truth be told most Mythic Raiders are bad and cannot handle timings being different. It’s actually kind of cringe when you see negative progression when the team gets more gear because the extra gear has caused timings to be different (and nobody wants to stop DPS because “muh parse”).
A Mythic raid team that has a rotating door of players is going to struggle unless they’re very good players.
Maybe. I pugged my way through the first 5 in Nyalotha pretty easily.
You would be surprised how many former Mythic raiders no longer can do it due to the time commitment. Or maybe they have an alt they want to progress through.
So you don’t think pugs are more prevalent now with flex normal/heroic than they were back when even those raids had hard lockouts?