“It’s not too late for Blizzard to scrap content they have been working on for 2 years and implement my personal fan-fiction”.
4 Likes
The problem is you are assuming Haranir are an offshoot of Night Elves and the trolls and Night Elves are not offshoot of them.
Both Trolls and Night Elves supposedly descended from Dark Trolls but who is to say that either race didn’t descend from them.
Also the Haranir are a better fit as an allied race since they have characteristics of both Night Elves (Wild Elves tgat are nature oriented) and trolls (A more tribalistic society). At least they fit far better than the Earthen do.
….anyway who else is happy to get a horde druid race who can wear shoes
2 Likes
Trolls and Elves are basically the same Genus of creatures, might even be a ring species.
Using biology and looking at noticible phenotypes. You can list out the traits of Elves and Trolls to see that morphologically they are the same.
Besides the basic “Humaniod shape”
All elves, trolls, and now haranir share a long list of similar features.
I will also use Quillboar and humans as a test for features, as you can see a few things now.
Ears-
- Round - Human, Dwarves, Gnomes
- Pointed- Quillboar, Haranir, Trolls, Goblins, and elves.
Tusks (aka over sized canine).
- No - Human, Dwarves, Gnomes, Goblins, Highelves (Blood & Void)
- Partial - Haranir, Nightelves, Nightborn
- Yes- Quilboar, Haranir, Trolls
Footpad/Digitgrade Feet-
- No - Humans, Dwarves, Gnomes, Goblins, Elves, Haranir
- Footpad - Trolls, Haranir
- Digitgrade - Quilboar
Quils
- No - Human, Dwarves, Gnomes, Goblins, Elves, Trolls
- Sometimes - Haranir
- Yes - Quilboar
based on these features, and because you can not reverse some types of evolution, Haranir are the Oldest lineage of these races - Trolls, Elves, Goblins, and Quilboar.
digitgrade feet are a specilization that can not be reversed. Thus Quilboar are the most evolved type of Elf.
Haranir are the oldest branch, with goblins being an example of insular dwarfism.
Also before anyone says the Pygmy are related to Goblins, their mophology doesn’t fit. They are physically more like Humans, Dwarves, and gnomes.
if all races were equal.
100/29= 3.448%
Since the super majority of players play Elves, Blood & Night. And because you can make them look like a Nightelf, the odds are highly likely the horde will see a large influx of Haranir Druids. I suspect that 3~4% will be about right, since over half the races in WOW have under 3%
Blood Elf, Nightelf, Void Elf, Humans, and Orc players will not change, but I can see Troll, Draenai, Dwarf, Kul Tiran players all jumping to the new QuilTrollElves.
Narrator: It was way too late.
3 Likes
Kul Tiran 2.0
KTs are the least played race RN; these new ones will probably take that slot. I’m only mildly impressed with the Druid and Shaman versions; the rest are just “meh”.
I don’t know what’s supposed to be ideal about a cross between elves and a humanoid form of wild boars… but I guess everyone has their own preferences.
1 Like
I mean clearly you don’t share the vision the devs have for Haranir, but what on earth makes you think they would stop anything they’re doing just because you made a plea on the “complaint” forums? 
I get articulating WHY you don’t like something about Midnight and what could be better, but just asking them to stop without explaining the issue and offering alternative solutions isn’t going to get your thread to be noticed by a Community Manager, who might then in turn pass it on to the devs (because it’s near-certain that no devs are directly reading GD and for the 1 or 2 that do, they probably are not allowed to respond directly here).
2 Likes
I’m pretty sure this guy gets upset that the Domino’s driver won’t change his pizza order.
“It’s not too late to add thick crust! Domino’s isn’t a small indie company!”
5 Likes
Horde can accept their chubby Night Elves and be happy! 
1 Like
Narrator voice – “It was, in fact, too late to scrap half the Haranir…”
5 Likes
all right, so how can you tell a story about THE HORDE OFFENSIVE, landing in northrend and establishing A HORDE BASE, with HORDE CHARACTERS, without being specific to the horde as a faction?
Even in the argent conflict arose and the factions remained rivals fighting each other in the tournament
It doesnt matter if the fight becomes harder, they think they can still do it anyway
by example the flying ship battle in icecronw, that is peak cinema
Again, how and why you are going to write compelling stories about a bunch of neutral freebies in a world where the factions, and races inside then hate other and the conflict and plot arise from it?
You can write forsaken and worgen in the same patch because they hate each other, and you can make then buttheads in the same zone
midnight will revolve around the void wanting to destroy silvermoon and the horde and alliance trying to protect while they antagonize each other, the void elves and humans will antagonize the blood elves and between this interaction conflict and intrigues will arise
What similar thing you can do with dracthyr, earthen or pandaren? nothing, because they have zero grudge to each other
Thats not rly the only thing to it
Going deep int he story we know most of it is a facade, the insect people and the mogu rage war against the pandaren all the same, the hozen and th ejinuy fought each other
The shado-pan itself was a very shady group who went far to kidnap children and raise then as weapons, so on so on
its way more deep than “horde and alliance bad”
That doesnt work in world of warcraft
vol’jin wasnt leading crap there, Sylvanus was, she even shows up in the cinematic
How they are not, the entire beginning of the expansion before going to the elemental planes is we fighting as factions against enemies
Remember Taurujo? ashenvale? the barrens? guilneas???
The entire expansion was about faction conflict until the shift in gear to fight DW and even there we had faction stories in twillight highlands where the horde recruit the dragonmaw clan and the dwarves get in touch witht he wildhammer making another conflict there
Except factional storytelling was very good for the game from vanilla to Legion.
Only they decide to tell neutral stories is where they started harming the narrative: see Shadowlands, TWW and DF
Just dont do that and do what they did before? both factions were morally gray
To put it simple:
Without factions there is only going to be elf and human stories, like we had in DF, TW and midnight, and it will be very lame, totally anti warcraft.
Not necessarily, i literally told you there was ton of faction content and it wasnt pvp related
By example:
horde facing quilboar in tauren territory, alliance facing gnolls in alliance territory - this is faction stories
And there is also Horde facing alliance invading the barrens and, alliance facing the horde invading ashenvale.
Both are faction stories that arent related to PVP
why the protectors of the world tree align with the faction that burned one down to the ground?
They are just night elves with mushroons, how the hell that is an interesting addition?
They are literally copying all the night elf story beats
Except they dont and it iwasnt rly a question, everyone new trolls arose like other animals and were the first
And that rly doesnt make sense with old lore and how they look like
Blizzard can say they are the very first beings on azeroth it doesnt make less dumb
This is the jailer story all over again
1 Like
Because the Horde was just the vehicle that delivered the PC to Northrend. It could have been the Argents or any other agency and the end result would have been the same narratively. A faction story requires the factions themselves to be indispensable to it; the Northrend campaign is not a faction story, but the BFA campaign is due to it directly being done in response by and in response to the factions.
But that’s my problem, every soldier involved in both sides of that fight were utter morons for endangering the mission right in front of them with an impromptu measuring contest. That doesn’t make me think I’m a member of an elite and professional military, that makes me think I’m storming the most dangerous entity on the planet with a group of frat boys.
You’re right, Humans have never fought other Humans, Orcs have never fought other Orcs. It’s always been Human VS Orc.
Except, wait, you can have intra-racial conflict and storylines arise if you’re a decent writer. Just look at: the Defias, Warsong, Shattered Hand, Scarlet Crusade, Shadow Council, etc, etc…
This is also another reason why centralizing the faction conflict is a bad idea, because it manages to leave certain races completely in the cold. This is not a ding against the ‘neutral’ races like Pandaren, Dracthyr, or Earthen, but is instead because of Blizzard’s laziness when it comes to storytelling; every Human is Alliance, every Orc is Horde, and that’s just how to tell who’s who in a fight. There’s no nuance, no intrigue, and no interest.
‘Horde and Alliance bad’ isn’t what I claimed the theme was. The theme was ‘needless war wounds the world’ and that is absolutely on point. Warring against the Mogu was necessary and needful, they were conquerors and slavers. Horde and Alliance decided to try and carve up Pandaria to serve their own interests was not necessary or needful, they could have used their words instead of their weapons. Then again, Varian and Garrosh were not known for being particularly peaceful in outlook or desire.
Yes, the Shado-Pan were extremists and their methods were very, very questionable. No one is doubting this, but that’s another symptom of the cost of war, which was another theme of MoP, exploring what constant and endless war costs a culture.
Only because the writers haven’t demonstrated enough creativity and drive to make such stories work, and that the faction code is so ancient and ingrained as to be technically challenging. The Horde and Alliance would be able to be far more interesting if the PC weren’t required to be a part of them.
Er… Vol’jin was the Warchief at Broken Shore and was leading the Horde push. Yes, Sylvanas showed up in cinematics, but Vol’jin was the leader.
Cataclysm was the exploration of a world broken by a massive event; the Quilboar raiding Mulgore weren’t paid off by the Alliance, nor were the natural disturbances occuring throughout Darkshore somehow enabled by the Horde. That’s not to say there weren’t factional threads, Taurajo and Theramore happened after all, but the storyline was still centered on the World rather than the Warcraft.
BFA, a very factional storyline, was panned as the worst thing to happen to WoW, and rightly so. It made every single Horde into collaborators with a monster, and every single Alliance bumbling fools that forgot how to Mass Teleport. It also utterly wrecked the Zandalari and made them utterly irrelevant to the world, while also tearing down a beloved city in Teldrassil. So a brand new AR gets the wind kicked out of them and a legacy race gets made homeless.
That’s not how WoW’s narrative works, your PC is assumed to have been present for every major event, given how you inherit the title of ‘Champion’ from pretty much the word ‘go’. Which means Horde Champions aided Sylvanas in her torching of civilians, while Alliance Champions stumbled around and if I recall correctly, put said civilians to sleep so it wouldn’t be painful.
Wow. So heroic.
You get half credit here by identifying the problem; Blizzard only knows, or is comfortable writing, for Humans, Elves, and Orcs. The solution is not to shove faction conflict into the mix, the solution is to develop the other races and give them the spotlight for a good long while, exploring their cultures and their views of the world.
Nearly every ‘factional’ storyline may as well have been a Human/Orc storyline anyway since that’s the race of whoever we’re usually reporting to. Only racial-centric stuff features the others.
What? No those aren’t. The quilboar problem was a Tauren story, and Hogger and the gang was a Human story. Hogger wasn’t causing any problems for Dwarves, Gnomes, NE, or Worgen, nor did the quilboar threaten the Orcs, Trolls, Forsaken, or Goblins.
My point is that they would have been better if the factions and those storlines were PvP, because those are great situations to make into wartime stories. The problem arises in dragging characters uninterested in factional politics and forcing them into the role of patriotic soldiers. I don’t mind protecting the civilians caught in the midst of the Horde and Alliance’s spats, and would have been all over a questline to help secure Taurajo’s escapees or rescue them from quilboar. Instead of that though, I get to have a ‘fist-pumping moment’ when Garrosh nukes Theramore and I’m told to celebrate this barbaric retribution.
Breaking the forced link between factions and races, and making the factions strictly PvP entities with PvP questlines and storylines specifically engineered to pit them against their foes would be better for both the bloodlusting patriot of their respective faction and the wandering hero that would care nothing for either faction and just wants to be the do-gooder of the day.
2 Likes
I dunno. My bat druid is kinda growing on me in Beta. Dino druid is awesome, but bat druid is quirky and unique in its own way too. Probably not enough to main, but meh.
Can’t imagine actually maining a bleh troll though. Least druids get to have cool forms.
If i order something different they have time to make a new one just fine.
Hey raising awareness and if there is 1 and in a billion chance for then to realize they did a mistake i take it
It wouldnt, because that would mean missing a lot of story in between us and the lich king, making the expansion boring fast
And they literally were… Did you forgot that it was needed both the alliance and horde to face off the scourge? they couldn’t do it with the argents alone, thats bogus
You NEED both factions in the narrative to help in the war effort, therefore you need to tell the story with then in mid, which is precisely why today narrative fails at
So? Thats literally what happens in war all the time, dissidents, deserters, people fueled by emotions, thats literally something normal that make the events more belivable.
They do not care about meta perspective because the characters live in that world with their biases and pre-conceptions.
George Armstrong Custer, Disobeyed orders to wait for reinforcements, ignored his scouts and launched an attack that resulted in his defeat
These things HAPPENS, if everything is perfect and act like you think they should logically do all the time its not a story is a lame script
That still is a story from a faction standpoint
Its the horde versus the dark horde, the alliance versus the defias who want overthrow stormwind
Those are still stories to push forward the factions and they all made sense because they used old world lore, again, what else can you do with a brand new race that was sleeping for thousand years and another who is super niece? how do you fit their conflict into an already existing world?
Shadowlands, DF and TWW didnt had faction conflict and other races got crap anyway
And they also pointed that some wars ARE needed.
No its because that is how the game is.
not all stories work in all kind of games or genre.
And he did nothing, he was just there and got stabbed
He was as much leader as me there
…Told by the factions viewpoint since you, the player, belong to those factions.
Im noticing you are trying to lesser the factions importance every time i mention it.
No, it was shadowlands.
The problem with bFA was the same problem with WoD, content cut
The second problem BFA had was they literally copying MOP in a worst way, completely pivoting from the faction conflict to 'faction conflict is bad, you should feel bad and peace is good"
Of course people will be mad about it when they get a bait and switch expansion.
It worked pretty well from vanilla to Cata, i dont know what else you were playing
they dont know how to write orcs, the last thing decent orcs were written was in WoD, they were completely absent in Legion, despite being one of of the races who should be at the front killing kil’jaden due to what he did, completely absent from DF, despite they having a clan that specialize themselves in handling dragons and in shadowlands, BFA and TWW they screwed over Thrall and Saurfang, and killed one of then.
It is, actually
Having factions force then to write two different stories - like we use to have - and force then to give attention to the races of said faction, again check how things were handled in CATA, they had to work with horde stories so it made then work with taurens, trolls, blood elves, forsaken, orcs, everyone got a piece, same way for the alliance
without factions they will just pick an “avengers assemble cast” and focus the story ON THEN, not in the world of the races. We will have elves humans with an orc or a tauren as token.
They absolutely are, tauren story is horde story, taurens are horde
anything that affects then aftects the faction, this is how it is, one for all and all for one FOR THE HORDE
nah, they are great the way it is, i dont want to do pvp just for it
I like going to ashenvale and conquer it for my faction, i like killing the xenophobic elves who denied the horde resources they hoard
this in the story, i dont need pvp for it and not everyone is into it
Your response is what most of us expected. 
1 Like
You mean the most normal and basic response?
For you, yes. 
I actually belong to the anti–Night Elf Copy No. 3 camp.
They really are a rather questionable copy, both in their appearance and in their lore, which at best is vague and at worst downright insulting considering over two decades of lore about trolls and night elves.
Especially the latter, since they basically appropriate their entire theme, just with the added factor of coming across as complete good-for-nothings and cowards because they simply let everything happen.
As others have already said, the only appeal of such a race is giving the Horde a Night Elf knockoff with druids.
But neither aesthetically nor lore-wise is this race even remotely appealing. I at least have no desire to play a race made up of cowardly hybrids.
However, I can agree with you on this point, by making all races neutral in general, players would finally have the chance to play the faction they actually like.
Because of faction-locked races, there’s so much toxicity in the community that WoW players are practically infamous for it.
I think if you truly let everyone play what they want, whether it’s because of looks, racials, etc., you’d cut out a good portion of the particularly… outspoken players.
2 Likes