It’s High Time

[Kaercha-kelthuzad]

Yeah, maybe that’s inevitable.

Second attempt:

Mats aren’t deterministic, but instead, they satisfy quality requirements. Going back to my shaman gear example. Say, you’re making some chest piece that requires “a conductor”, metal thread of pretty much any kind would work, but the liquid goo off opulence gives you better conduction than, say, the metal wires dropped by Mecha gnomes. Let’s say the price has 5 items it needs.

X amount of scales, conductive thread, padding, oil, and some magic catalyst.

Any scale would work, but some thunder lizard bosses scales would yield the best results, but literally kind of scales would satisfy the requirement.

Same for the conductive thread. Spinning golden opulence blood into thread is better than junk wiring, but you could use either (at the lost of a few item levels).

See what I’m getting at? Basically, for whatever content you do, you can craft gear at that level.

So, if you do all world quests, never step into an instance, and you make this out of mats available to you, you get an item level 385 with + nature damage on it (just an example). If you’re a m+ fanatic, you make it out of boss parts and get a 410 piece, same stats, just higher item level. If you’re a mythic raider and you sew in opulence goo and Jaina fingers nails, you get 420.

Tiered crafting.

[Cyniel-dentarg (Cyniel)]

I’m not… There is enough flipping RNG in this game we don’t need more we need less. The current leather, tailor and blacksmith is finally at a point where you’re creating stuff that you can use at level. Now if you’re talking about overhauling 1-300 of vanilla stuff sure. Bugs me to no end that I craft stuff for level 10 while being level 40 because the mats don’t match up.

But no I’m not with you on this…

[Kaercha-kelthuzad]

That wouldn’t be RNG. Like the guy said, people would eventually figure it out, and a chance to fail is a chance to not have fun.

My “second attempt” (from above, paraphrased)

Basically mats have their own item level, and your output is determined by the quality of mats you use, but mats are largely interchangeable between recipes. This would lead to fewer overall recipes, but would add a ton of depth to crafting, and add natural progression into new expansions.

[Ohgodmyeyez-hyjal]

Say, you’re making some chest piece that requires “a conductor”, metal thread of pretty much any kind would work, but the liquid goo off opulence gives you better conduction than, say, the metal wires dropped by Mecha gnomes. Let’s say the price has 5 items it needs.

See, this I think could be interesting – that’s using your noodle!

So basically, a series of category items, where the better quality of the category item used in each recipe slot, the better the item that is yielded? Or varied effects?

Though it’s not really relevant anymore, let’s say you have a ‘Coating’ slot, and using a Fire elemental item causes Fire Resistance while using a Shadow elemental item causes Shadow Resistance?

The only downside I can see to this is that it necessitates a MASSIVE number of different item IDs – either that, or Blizzard has to create a large number of ‘bonus’ types to fill in.

It certainly sounds interesting, but I can’t see Blizzard investing the time necessary to make it work how I’d like a concept like that to work.

[Kaercha-kelthuzad]

Yeah, basically. If the stats are deterministic, then varying quality of mats push the item level up. Basically, mats have item levels, and your result is the total or average of the mats used.

If stats aren’t deterministic, then maybe there are a few “wild card” ingredient slots that (depending on what you use) could yield crit/haste secondaries or “Vers/mastery” secondaries, etc., giving crafters the ability to tailor make (see what I did there) gear for individual needs.

[Nowise-dalaran (Nowise)]

The problem with professions is they feel like time sinks/chores rather than something you look forward to doing. Some of them are barely profitable. If the same affection that was given to artifact weapons was given to professions perhaps more players would give a snot about them.

[Kaercha-kelthuzad]

Hence this brainstorming session.

[Ohgodmyeyez-hyjal]

I’mma just drop this here.

Professions, Portals, and Player Agency

Preface Before I get into this, I want to specify what this post is not, so that there’s no confusion as to its purpose. • I am speaking solely for myself. • This is not a thread about player conveniences, although some things mentioned could be considered conveniences. • I am not demanding any changes, merely pointing out what I see as flaws in the game’s current design philosophy. • There won’t be a TL;DR, but I will do my best to categorize and sort my thoughts in such a way that section…

[Liadrean-thrall]

The reason why professions are like they are in live, is because Blizz wants them that way.

There’s no need to balance them(After removing the boons, like the belt buckle gem slot) and only need to add little each tier to “keep them relevant”, just a couple new recipes and call it a day, the most important materials being soulbound and even the crafted gear, to make sure they’re not being used as a mean to progress on anything(PvP or PvE).

Look how professions have been handled in the last 5 years. Don’t you think there’s a reason why they are in the current state? This is what Blizzard is comfortable with and are willing to give us.

Go ahead and check around, back in, let’s say WotLk, professions could give you boosts like the cloak enchantment, materials used in end game crafted gear and the gear itself could be traded(Primordial Saronite and Icc vendor recipes).

This is the way professions will be from now on, get used to it. The balance team hates professions with a dying passion.

[Thunderçatz-zuljin (Thunderçatz)]

This is a terrible idea. If discovery is random, that’s more RNG in the game that isn’t needed. If it’s not random, then it will be datamined and just pointless to have no information for in-game.

Discoveries don’t always have to be RNG. Its possible to make a trigger for discovery as well.

then at max level you start experimenting with items you find, or buy from other professions,

For example, lets say I randomly mixed together a Bronze Ore and Flask of Fathoms, that could be a trigger to discovering how to make a Bronzing Potion. Discovery is not always random.

As to OP, I would enjoy a system where all reagents in some way stay current or have a use towards finding new and exciting things.

This will result in set recipes located only on Wowhead. The number of combinations with usable results will be datamined and a list of mats made available on third-party sites. That’s all this would result in – recipes but without the convenience of having the necessary materials displayed in-game.

That happens regardless of what happens. Everything will be data mined and put on WoWhead and be there for sake of convenience. Just because something would just be data mined doesnt mean it shouldnt exist though, because plenty of people probably don’t use WoWhead regularly.

[Kaercha-kelthuzad]

I feel like this is pretty cynical view. Obviously, we all hope that “fun” is the target goal for the design team.

[Rannictobis-zuljin]

Heirlooms have pretty much rendered all crafted armour and weapons useless. Outside of that, items drop so frequently from mobs and quests and leveling is so easy that food is not needed. Lower the item drops, make all future heirloom upgrades crafted only and let mobs do real damage so that food is needed again. Fix that problem and you fix crafting.

[Kaercha-kelthuzad]

That was a good read. I feel like our goals are at least on the same page - making crafting feel rewarding at all levels of play and giving players more choice.

[Ohgodmyeyez-hyjal]

Yeah, I don’t feel like we’re out of alignment on what’s desired with crafting systems.

I just didn’t want to write another essay on my thoughts. Thanks for saving me that trouble.

[Kaercha-kelthuzad]

I love this kind of discussion, personally. Too bad blizzard doesn’t read General lol.

[Ohgodmyeyez-hyjal]

Too bad blizzard doesn’t read General lol.

I think they do. Probably in a SIGNIFICANTLY condensed form gathered by a CM, but if something is talked about enough, it most likely reaches them.

Personally, while I don’t like where professions are at currently, the game has bigger issues that need solving before I start looking at the periphery.

[Eican-draenor]

At endgame, perhaps more recipe drops in heroic and mythic dungeons, but not base recipes.

The masses will skin you alive and throw you in a bucket of salt for saying such things. Do you not remember (as recently as Legion) all the uproar and crying because they put some recipes in dungeons?

[Banksey-silver-hand]

Yeah, believe me… I don’t want dungeons to be part of my leveling process for professions, but I don’t mind dungeon specific recipes for endgame… for recipes that are not part of the leveling process… but for niche recipes, for a cosmetic appearance potion, or for a group use Wardrobe for 20 minute appearance change, I am ok with dungeon dropped recipes.

NOT BASE RECIPES (says it right in the quote you used)…

Anything not used to level the profession is ok in dungeons in my opinion.

[Kaercha-kelthuzad]

What about what I suggested? Where the recipe isn’t the limiting factor, but the mats are.

[Banksey-silver-hand]

I don’t mind mats in dungeons so long as it isn’t something you need to do 10 - 15 dungeon runs just to get enough mats for 1 item. And I definitely don’t want dungeon runs to be part of any leveling process. Call it Max Profession mats if you will… once you hit max level on your profession, new recipes open up where the highest quality mats are in dungeons, I am ok with that… but it has to be easy enough to farm those mats without going out of your way… ideally, they are drops in bulk from the end boss or end boss adds.