It is time to FINALLY separate Raid and M+ gear completely like PvE/PvP for good

Community General Discussion
1

Delayed Catalyst is just one of the MANY reasons for this.

Proposal:-
All the raid gear would lower to M0 Normal Raids ilvl when entered in a M+ Instance.
All the M+ gear would lower to M0 Normal Raids ilvl when entered in a Raid.

Edit1:- Edited above lines about the scaling down to certain ilvl after reading some concerns about entry level gear for both activities being too low when someone wants to switch, this will help “start” the other activity but still keep higher difficulty levels in check.

Reasons:-

  • Raiders complain they have to farm M+ keys earlier in the patch to gear up for Raids.
  • M+ Only Players complain Raiders come in with higher ilvl and specially with Tier Sets early in the patch to push keys higher while they have about 1% chance of getting only ONE tier gear ONCE a week from Weekly Vault and overall just ONE max ilvl item ONCE a week.
  • Raiders complain you can “spam” M+ keys to gear up “quickly”.
  • M+ Only Players complain Raiders get multiple higher ilvl items from different bosses in Raids and then they can “pick and chose” Dungeons to fill in remaining slots with the help of higher ilvl gear from Raids making it much easier.

Gear Balancing Issues:-

Now imagine, Gavel or those Trinkets or Rings scaled down to M0 ilvl. All the nerfs/buffs/balancing issues and players complaining about they have to “farm” these for the “other” content would all be instantly disappear! There are plenty of other examples of Class abilities/utilities being nerfed/changed just to make sure it’s not OP in M+ when used with certain Raid gear.

  • Catalyst, the BIGGEST issue!

And that brings me to one of the biggest issues, systems like Catalyst that were requested mostly by M+ Players for not having access to Tier Sets and about 1% chance (80 -100+ items pool) from weekly Vault just ONCE a week wasn’t much of an option.

Remember, Raiders get guaranteed Tier Tokens drop from Raid bosses each week (multiple difficulties = multiple chances to get Tier Set) and that in and itself works as a loot drop protection method when someone gets a drop this week means next week someone else will get it.

Change the Catalyst in future to release a week or two into the patch and have it enable ONLY for M+ Gear at the start with one charge each week being fine. That will put M+ Players almost equal, if not a little behind Raiders getting Tier Sets.

4 - 6 weeks later, as it is the case right now, enable it to convert Raid drops as well as a real mean to “catch-up” for Raiders as well in case if they haven’t somehow completed their Tier Sets already.

Imagine if these two were truly separated, all the crazy farming and splits for RWF guilds would be reduced by a huge margin, Blizz won’t have to “overtune” M+ Dungeons early in the patch for artificial roadblocks in farming those dungeons. No complains from Raiders/M+ Only Players for them being “forced” to do other content or being “held back and treated as third class citizens” because of the content they don’t want to step foot into etc… etc…

35 Likes
2

Personally I love the idea. I have more than enough space for multiple gear sets in 4x32 slot bags, an inventory, a bank, and 7 32 slot bags in the bank.

PvP gearing is actually one of the best things in the game right now so I’d trust them to do right by separate M+ and raid gearing as well.

7 Likes
3

seperate gear for seperate content? sounds good to me. all the gotta do is throw on some extra stat that’s that-content specific, similar to pvp gear, where it can be used outside of pvp, but it won’t be as effective.

4 Likes
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Separating gear would be very anti-rpg.

17 Likes
5

I both like and dislike this idea at the same time.

7 Likes
6

I like that I can seamlessly transition between raid and M+, it lets me play both without worrying about upgrading multiple sets.

if a buddy that only raids wants to try running some keys, he’s not completely worthless because at least he has some raid gear, in OPs proposition players would be locked into whatever content they started gearing in and would have a high barrier of entry into anything else.

blizz should encourage players to try new avenues of gameplay not say “sucks to be you, your gear is trash now”

20 Likes
7

How is it anti rpg? Think of M+ like Tarkov loot… Crap is extremely rare and you often never get what you want unless you screw over someone else(bricking someones key just to get into another for loot).

M+ needs to be separated as there are players that ONLY play M+ and never touch raiding ever since it was added. The minute they want to start raiding they have easy access due to how high of ilvl they get from M+ weekly vaults and drops itself.

Do other players have to be forced to do this just to raid? We’re still so early after release and norms are being gated at 390 ilvl in most cases for even guild teams… What do people have to get 390 in a short amount of time? M+…

I hit 70 on my dk alt and within 3 ish days or less I was 390 ilvl by spamming keys. A guy who wants to do a norm clear? He’s lucky if he gets even 1-2 pieces by the end of the clear and they are 389… Mine are 395-398 pieces… Where is the fairness and balance in that?

1 Like
8

No.

Raid and M+ gear are PvE gear. PvE gear works in all forms of PvE.

Same as PvP gear and PvP.

If you don’t like this, plenty of non-RPG games on the market.

Because you do not need to gear for Arena and BGs seperately.

You buy the gear once and you’re good to go.

PvE gear is good for PvE, all PvE. Same as PvP gear is good for PvP, all PvP.

22 Likes
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Why is this a bad thing?

6 Likes
10

Because it’s anti-RPG for the god slaying sword you got in the lair of the Prime Elemental Lord to be suddenly blunt when trying to kill the Bandit boss in his shanty out by the sea.

10 Likes
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Bandits aren’t gods, makes sense

12

It sets and minimum bar of entry for raiding with his idea.

If you start off at a set level of 372-379 to just begin LFR cause your M+ gear downgrades to that level in raid setting that is still more than enough for normal clearing. They can still get set from catalyst tbh if it stays along with his idea.

It’d make room for much needed progression as well, you already have to have a PvP set in your inv for shuffle or world pvp, you already have to have a M+ off spec set, what does this scream? Armor vault… Something similar to FFXIV with how you store job gear in a little personal vault on yourself… Same can be done here.

If I had to change anything aside from his idea and add my own progression loop it’d be making all pieces from end game drop as legendarys with skill trees and combo points like Legion artifacts -_- I missed that so much. Even if I didn’t get loot from a raid I’d at least be able to put an upgrade point into my artifact gaining a tiny bit of strength.

1 Like
13

my lack of 4 set would like a word with you.

2 Likes
14

na. this is a dumb idea, and will only be supported by people that envy the other side.

13 Likes
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I think you’re confused to my comment? Are you with him above saying it is anti rpg?

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I think I was pretty clear.

“When M+ players want to start getting into raid, they have easy access.”

Why do you think this is a bad thing and a reason it would be better to separate gear? I consider it a good thing for players to be able to get into new avenues of gameplay they are interested in exploring. Fewer artificial barriers to entry means higher participation.

13 Likes
17

Blizz made everything anti RPG as soon as they put in M+… There was no real excitement getting a raid piece to drop or a lore weapon from last boss in a raid… It’d just be replaced by M+ gear unless you mythic raid which in of itself was a bad idea in the past… Heroic should have been the end bar of difficulty that everyone should have a clear shot at completing with a guild.

Now most have to be in a esport style setting with their guild shoving cheetos down their throats and yelling at eachother for making mistakes in fractions of a second xD

7 Likes
18

This right here is why it shouldn’t be separated.

2 Likes
19

Yes, please.

20

Not to mention there is exactly 0 reason that aren’t “lazyness” to split the game modes.

Raid loggers being lazy is not a new thing and it doesn’t need to be enabled.

There’s nothing anti-RPG about M+.

That’s still as exciting as it was. Raiders are downright giddy to get the Broodkeeper staff.

Oh you’re one of those peeps who think powering your SNES classic to play SFII Turbo is “Esports”.