Issues with updated hunter class tree in TWW Beta

Classes Hunter
1

Disclaimer: The 6/11/2024 update is a HUGE step in the right direction for the hunter class and its specs. Props to the designers over at Blizzard. This post aims to be as “nit-picky as possible” to try and identify any lingering “issues” that the class tree might still have.

Issues

  1. Improved Kill Shot - Why is this talent still a separate node from Kill Shot? Why isn’t it just rolled into the talent node directly above it? As a throughput node for a DPS class, is there really ANY hunter that isn’t going to pick it up? It feels like a “talent tax”.
  2. Hunter’s Avoidance - In any theorycrafted build I do, I just kind of avoid this talent. Sure, it’s probably useful for min/maxing survivability in the highest end of game content, but it’s just so uninteresting. Could it also do something like… allow Disengage to be used directionally, or something? (Instead of having to rapidly spin my character so that I can “jump backwards” in the direction I actually want to travel in)
  3. Tranquilizing Shot - Is it a bug that this talent node isn’t connected to Counter Shot for Beastmaster hunters?
  4. Concussive Shot - Still weird that Survival/Melee hunters really can’t do anything to extend the duration of this ability. I guess with access to harpoon, maybe Survival Hunters wouldn’t care about it at all. Maybe Concussive Shot could reduce the cooldown of Harpoon when used by Survival Hunters… or something? I dunno. I’d love to see an “Arctic Bola” option in this talent’s place for Survival Hunters which simply turns Wing Clip into a ranged bouncing snare (no damage) that lasts longer but can’t be refreshed in any way. That’d be pretty legit.
  5. Kodo Tranquilizer - I love the direction this is going for being able to augment the functionality of Tranquilizing Shot, but the niche need for this feels incredibly underwhelming for a talent point expenditure. If the effects of the new Disruptive Rounds talent were somehow rolled into it or something, that’d be more worthwhile.
  6. Devilsaur Tranquilizer - See comment above. Also… are we REALLY going to need to dispel the enrage off something (or multiple targets) once every 5 seconds? It’d be kinda cool to have a Tranquilizing Shot upgrade that allowed it to hit multiple targets, or something. Or maybe it could suppress enrage benefits for 5 seconds too. I dunno.
  7. Scare Beast - This is still a talent and not just a baseline niche ability? And why does it still have a cast time? Would Druids in PvP really cry that badly?
  8. No Hard Feelings - Any particular reason this lasts only 5 seconds instead of the full 8 seconds that Misdirection is going to redirect threat? I assume the damage reduction period doesn’t actually start until after threat begins to be redirected and not when the initial misdirection buff if first applied… but the tooltip doesn’t necessarily clarify that.
  9. Scout’s Instincts - I want to like this more… but the cooldown of Aspect of the Cheetah is so high and the 80% minimum isn’t really powerful in PvE or PvP. If this talent instead made the hunter completely immune to snares and roots while Aspect of the Cheetah was active, it’d have my attention. As it is right now, I doubt many hunters will b e picking it up outside of flag running in PvP or something. There’s too many other useful options.
  10. Binding Shot - This is still a pretty awkward stun to use, despite the unique flavor it provides to the Hunter’s class fantasy. Personally, I’d rather see this on a choice node with Entrapment where “Binding Tar” (renamed) would add a stun effect to Tar Trap when triggered, but increase it’s cooldown by 15 seconds. This would increase the synergy of the hunter’s “AoE stun” by attaching it to a trap, and there’s a lot of other talents that work off of traps.
  11. Trigger Finger - GLARES AT A 2-POINT TALENT NODE. Several talents in the various spec trees benefit from increased attack speed, so this’ll likely be 100% required pick up in all talent builds.
  12. High Explosive Trap / Steel Trap - I like both of these talents in their own right. I’m just sad that there isn’t a “Landmine” version of “High Explosive Trap” which knocks enemies upward instead of away. That’d make for a better choice node with “High Explosive Trap” than “Steel Trap”. “Steel Trap” could be placed onto its own choice node somewhere with “Wyvern Sting” (the version that puts a single target to sleep), or something.
  13. Keen Eyesight - GLARES AT A 2-POINT TALENT NODE. Several talents in the various spec trees benefit from critical strike chance, so this’ll definitely be a 100% required pick up in all talent builds.
  14. Tar-Coated Bindings - If the awkwardness of Binding Shot’s “stun” mechanics are here to stay, couldn’t this talent also reduce the distance enemies would have to travel in order to trigger the stun? Or also increase Binding Shot’s initial radius? Or something?
  15. Kindling Flare - Are we… gonna see a lot of PvE circumstances where this’ll be relevant? Yes, yes, I can see this being useful in PvP, I just don’t see why this relatively weak talent (positioned within the final tier unlock) earns itself a place on the class talent tree instead of being a PvP talent. If this instead somehow combined Hunter’s Mark and Flare together (AoE Mark? Enemies revealed by flare get Hunter’s Mark applied to them?) or something, it’d be worth my attention. Otherwise, dealing with hidden enemies is already a pretty niche application, I’m not sure the 3-second lingering reveal is enough to merit a talent point expenditure at the bottom of the talent tree.
  16. Trailblazer - Yes! This is what the talent should’ve been all along! BUT WHY IS IT STUCK AT THE BOTTOM OF THE TREE?! Shouldn’t it be where “Hunter’s Avoidance” is currently positioned? It’s so useful for the leveling process!
  17. Binding Shackles - I’m puzzled as to why this talent is still here, and in such a “bottlenecking” position at the bottom of the talent tree. Bursting Shot isn’t included in the list of affected abilities either. This would be WAY more desirable if it did something like, “Enemies affected by any of your crowd control abilities reduce the cooldown of your other crowd control abilities by 2 seconds. Cannot occur more than once every 5 seconds.” Give hunters an incentive to really lean into utility and control, particularly since there’s still 10-ish “DPS throughput” talents still loitering the tree.
  18. Camouflage - I’m still sad this ability has a 1 minute cooldown, and that it doesn’t start until after you come out of camouflage. The ability is fine, I’d just like to be able to stealth more. If this were on a choice node with an option akin to the druid’s “Prowl” ability… that’d be pretty legit.
  19. Pathfinding - How does a talent exist that is even worse than the Monk’s “Windwalking” talent? Why does this exist when “Trailblazer” exists? Why isn’t this measly 4% movement speed boost rolled into “Hunter’s Avoidance”, or some other talent? 1 talent point expenditure for a measly 4% movement speed boost that only affects yourself (and not even while you’re mounted)? I imagine most hunters will do a hard pass on this talent point unless they’re just in “BRRR Speed” mode.
  20. Serrated Tips - Couldn’t this be rolled into “Keen Eyes”? How many talent points do you want to “tax” hunters into boosting their critical strike chance? Don’t you realize that hunter DPS is going to be “averaged” around hunters taking throughput talents like these? Hunters (in a balanced world) will literally be “underperforming” if they don’t pick up talents like this.
  21. Moment of Opportunity - Only occurring once every minute is pretty infrequent. This talent is also locked behind a very undesirable talent (Binding Shackles). I could see this being useful for “getting away” in PvP or even PvE though.
  22. Ghillie Suit - Doesn’t any damage break you out of the stealth provided by Camouflage? So this’ll literally only provide the 3 second window of damage reduction? And it’s useless during combat because you can’t initiate Camouflage while inside of combat? I guess you could macro Feign Death and “Play Dead” together (since your pet needs to be out of combat too), then hope you can press Camouflage in time to benefit from it’s DR in the event your two charges of Survival of the Fittest are on cooldown or you need to stack additional DR on top of Survival of the Fittest and can’t use Aspect of the Turtle for some reason (even though the process of triggering Ghillie Suit in-combat will take several global cooldowns-worth of time to pull off). It’s just… it’s just a poorly designed talent. If this instead removed the cooldown of Camouflage altogether or allowed it to be used during combat or something, that’d be more desirable.
  23. Death Chakram - I get that a lot of hunters like this ability. It’s thematic. It was one of the better “capstone” options in the old hunter class tree, and almost every hunter picked it up. It sims well. I get it. I don’t know why it’s not more central to the “Sentinel” Hero Class, but maybe there’s time to correct that in the future. I just… it’s just weird that there are still so many DPS throughput talents in the class tree, and the rotational priorities are already pretty competitive for the various specs. Having this bounce, and add a damage component, and restore Focus, and… it just does so much for a single talent, it makes me kind of hate that it mechanically exists in its current form. I think it really needs to be worked into the Sentinal Hero Class tree instead of floating around at the bottom of the hunter class tree… in isolation… with zero other synergizing talents… awkwardly.
  24. Unnatural Causes - Does this do 10% increased damage for DoTs, boosted to a total of 15% increased damage vs. targets below 20% health? Or does it do 10%, then 50% vs. low health targets? Kinda vague. I get that some hunters might want the option to further lean into DoT playstyles (Basilisk Collar says hi), but I’m still a bit nervous about how many DPS throughput talents are still loitering the class talent tree.
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Tbf, so long as other talents are likewise taxed, that is a ‘valid’ use of a talent node. It aims to reduce your total number of flexible pre-capstone points by 1. As do many others. Since we shouldn’t be able to take all the utility that we want and non-BMs currently only have 2 obligatory throughput nodes before capstone, since only BM would bother with 10% attack speed split between self and pet.

Wouldn’t mind seeing it work a bit differently, sure, especially give the many other passive survivability buffs we’d been given since this first came out.

  • For the talent name, I always liked the idea of, idk, AoE damage taken being staggered by one second with (overhealing reducing the amount thus stored) and Disengage mitigating or nullifying 20% of said damage and a total of 20% HP’s worth for 1 second after activation. (Get hit and Disengage instantly or Disengage just before a big hit, nullifying more minor hits completely and surviving bigger ones.)

Arctic Bola sounds fun and thematic, but Kill Command would be a fine means of extending Concussive on SV if needed.

Yeah, I can’t really imagine picking this up either at present outside of PvP, at which point I’d rather see some other things effectively rolled into baseline and this bundled in among a more versatile (say, “Ammo Type”) PvP talent.

To some extent, perhaps just the total mitigation budget that they felt would be appropriate and then wanting to keep that budget sufficiently bursty? Or just not wanting it to be too strong a pet-defensive in PvP, at 8s per 30s of 50% miti? (Granted, they could then have tuned it separately…)

If it were even just 70% of the resultant speed, so that we couldn’t be dropped below 133% at first or below 91% thereafter, would feel decently worth. Or if it purely broke and/or nullified to the first 2 movement-slowing effects against you (be they roots or snares).

Aye. Would rather it function as a combo of Sigil of Chains (pulls to center) and Spear of Bastion (can’t go further than 5 yards from center).

Don’t particularly want to see Tar Trap become a stun, though.

Moreover, increasing the “synergy” of things isn’t always good. Always think of it also from the flip-side of the coin, “dependence”. Do you want your Binding Shot to be tuned around / dependent for full value on Improved Traps?

Another reason to go for the Spear of Bastion design. If can’t leave area, can’t be knocked out of area, making it just, in effect, a knock-up.

It’s merely optional for SV. It’s effectively just half a bleed. While we can no longer use Shrapnel Bomb to get up to 20 Bleeds up in just 2 GCDs, since WFI’s been removed, we still get plenty off Kill Command’s bleed, with KC itself now reducing the WFB CD by more than the effect on Lunge ever could in low target counts. (You’d need to maintain, what, 4+ bleeds to get the same effect via Lunge as NewWFI produces from just using KC on CD even without resets?)

Nah, it’s pretty entirely optional for MM (~0.2% dps increase) and SV (better but still pathetic). Only BM would particularly want this.

Yes, that one is wholly obligatory. As such, in total, 3 points taxed out for SV/MM, and 4 for BM. Which is… actually probably less than most rehauled talent trees, even?

Probably not. It’s there because the PvP talent cap is too low and this would never be worth replacing a full-fledged PvP talent for. /shrug

I’d love for it to instead be a continuous and Haste-affected movement speed increase, such that we average 7.5% movement speed increase over constant combat and can forgo the redundantly named Pathfinding (already the Cunning passive, though the talent is only half as strong), but yes, this should be up near the top instead. No leveler is going to notice 6% less AoE damage taken. They will notice losing their 30% movement speed out of or when fleeing combat.

Same. Would prefer to see Moment of Opportunity moved up and buffed slightly (say, starts being drained of duration only once you start moving or after 3s, whichever is soonest, and can trigger twice per minute, with the ICD stacks fading separately).

Same. That it doesn’t start cooling until after leaving it is fine by me, but I’d love to see some added flexibility (say, by making it a resource-CD instead of a hard CD, holding up to 2 minutes’ charge, drained at double speed while moving) and perhaps even combat implication (4 seconds to fade from sight if used in combat, interrupted by and wasting some charge if damaged during) as to not always need Feign to function.

Not really a fan of anything that reduces stat choice, tbh, which at least Keen Eyesight does not compared to Serrated Tips.

Indeed. Needs buffs for a bit more leveragability at lesser annoyance. E.g., 3s for the first, and proportionately less duration after 2 uses within the same minute (if you already used it twice 20 and 40s ago, it’d have only half effect while refreshing that to 20 and 0s ago, at which point it’d have only one-sixth effect if immediately triggered again, etc.).

Same criticisms here, aye.

Would like a button-less alternative to Death Chakram, not so much because I like having fewer buttons (I like an unpruned Arms, Sub, SV, Arcane, etc.) but because Death Chakram just feels out of place to me, especially on BM and MM.

That. 95% sure.

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Additional Issues

  1. Disruptive Rounds - It’s technically possible to pick this talent without first picking up either Countershot/Muzzle or Tranquilizing Shot, despite only affecting both of those talents.
  2. Lone Survivor - It’s technically possible to pick this talent without first picking up either Countershot/Muzzle or Survival of the Fittest, despite only affecting both of those talents.
  3. Moment of Opportunity - Is this gonna proc while I’m outside of combat and placing a Freezing Trap down as part of CCing a mob prior to a pull? I feel like this would be a bit annoying to have proccing at times when I don’t want it to. Like, I might enjoy “cheesing” the mechanic a bit to get “free” cheetah boosts on critters while romping around the open world, but I definitely wouldn’t want to exhaust the effect before even engaging in combat.

Missing talent ideas

  1. Snapping Turtle - Aspect of the Turtle no longer prevents you from attacking.
  2. Reclusive Shell - Aspect of the Turtle suppresses damage over time effects while active. Shares a choice node with Snapping Turtle.
  3. Arctic Bola - Fling an arctic bola at the target which bounces on up to 2 additional targets, snaring them for 50% of their movement speed for 8 seconds. Shares a choice node with Concussive Shot.

Adjusted talent ideas

  1. Scare Beast - [Existing effects, but with a new passive]. Passive: Beasts are disoriented while you tame them, preventing them from attacking you.
  2. Hunter’s Avoidance - Damage taken from area of effect attacks are reduced by 6%. This effect can stack up to 2 additional times if Trailblazer or Aspect of the Cheetah are active.
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