So if I were to pay for your mythic raid clear, you’d be ready to clear mythic on your own?
When it comes to PvP with rating locked gear it is again, 100% pay to win. You pay others to get you wins at the expense of others losses and you have a permeant advantage over a lot of other people who will never get that gear due to how MMR works.
Right now PvP is 100% pay to win.
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Possibly, players do it all of the time so they don’t have to spend the time gearing up their alts. But even if they don’t have the skill, it’s doesn’t change the fact that the game design is encouraging and profiting in money from the behavior.
Seeing as you’ve never done a raid or an m+ key before, that seems unlikely lol.
I see you’re the type of person who can’t win the argument so you attack the person, lol.
No one would 
If I go to any guild and offer them gold cap for all the raiders in the run to carry me through Sepulcher Normal they’ll say yes. Same for Heroic and same for Mythic. Only guilds I can see saying to scuff off are guilds who actually, truly, legitimately have a chance at world first which is only like 5 guilds at best.
It’s not an attack to tell you that you just can’t jump into a mythic raid without having done the progression. You’ve never even done LFR. How are you going to know the mechanics?
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sounds like everything that needs to spend money for these people are pay to win. Doesn’t matter what it is
Can you not just attain that rating on your own without spending a dime if you and your team are good enough?
Can you not buy the rating with gold earned completely in game? If that is p2w, then any game where you can pay another player to do something for you with in game currency is p2w.
Can you pay blizzard directly to just give you the rating and gear?
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I gave my reasons why I feel the way I do in my first post. There’s really not much more to say but I guess I will anyways. If I have to pay someone not associated with Blizzard to “win” and it’s something I can just “git gud” at and do it for free, then it’s not p2w.
It’s really that simple. Look at the damn phrase “PAY TO WIN.” If I can do the exact same thing FOR FREE then it’s not p2w. And even if you pay someone, what are you truly buying? Nothing. Because there’s no winning in this game. Rating and gear reset and become worthless as soon as the new season and/or xpac comes out.
Also, Blizzard does not support this kind of transaction. If I wanted to buy a boost and I picked the wrong buyer, and he decides to take my money and run then guess what? Blizzard is going to tell me “too bad; so sad.” They will not get my gold back and they probably won’t take action against the scammer unless they can see through chat logs that he scammed me.
This entire topic is like saying I went to Wal Mart and bought paint. I then gave the paint to Bob, a contractor, to use on my house. Bob then hires outside help and they paint my house. However, since Wal Mart sold the paint by your screwed up logic, they’re in the business of painting houses.
Tokens themselves doesn’t automatically equal buying a carrying. If I wanted to I could buy a token and then throw it in the bank until the servers shut down. It comes down to what you do with it. Buy bags, use it to change your transmog 500 times or purchase a boost. Blizzard has nothing to do with your decision.
Imo, which you are not going to change, if it’s not something like… you can’t do the best raid without buying it (DLC) or you can’t get the best gear without buying it then a game is not p2w. But whatever, keeping foaming at the mouth and smashing on the keyboard “yEs iT Is” because you’re pissed at Blizzard for whatever reason. Doesn’t change what I said above.
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Yes, WoW is pay to win. Yes, it is because of the Token. The token is Blizzards implementation, and they would have known the effects it would have had on the game.
Blizzard has stated that selling runs is within the spirit of the game./
Blizzard sells tokens which allow a person to transfer real world money into in game gold.
Gold can be used to purchase anything you want, including progression and the completion of time sensitive activities.
WoW… is… pay… to… win.
I can’t spell it out for you people any easier than this. I understand this is like totally complicated or something… but good god, I have written it in crayons for you people.
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You can buy the runs without buying the tokens.
You can do the runs with your own group.
You have to get other players to run you through the content for gold, not blizzard.
Maybe put the crayons down, I fear you’ve been eating them.
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Yes. The next question you get to ask yourself is if you’re ok with a game that allows out-of-game wealth to impact in-game progression. I’m sure your answer is, at least with WoW, that you’re fine with it at its current level.
Just being able to buy gold is essentially a P2W system in and of itself. The question is how much does that matter to you?
So you’re saying if I make some crappy mobile RPG hack and slash game where playing the game naturally rewards gems for doing certain activities and those gems can buy the most powerful items in the game, but it’s slow and a very drip drip form of acquisition while I ALSO sell those gems in bulk in the cash shop the game is NOT P2W? And also the game has PvP and ranking systems to it so if you ever want to be competitive within it you’re SoL if you don’t spend money?
Because that’s exactly how freemium games work.
Do you actually think P2W games have an ending to them? That you buy your way to the end of the game, and then you shelf it? The freemium games that make 100% of their money from shop purchases do the exact same thing WoW does in terms of having new seasonal content out regularly and new items.
If we’re going to run with the analogy that a store is the game and the products are a result of interacting with the store than the analogy is closer to this:
I went to a store and asked for paint, which they offered to me if I would work at the store for the day or if I spent $20. I’m not made of money so I choose to work, but other people come up and just buy it because they want to get on with their life and not waste their time working. Now I can stay in my own happy little world and keep working at the store because I like working at the store and I like the rewards from the store, and just ignore that other people are buying stuff and doing other fun things instead, but I can also ask myself if I really want to be at this store if I don’t feel like I’m being appreciated because I refuse to spend money.
And you know if the store is free-to-enter then that kind of is what it is, the store has to make their money somehow, but if the store is like Costco where you have to have a membership to get in the first place then I’m going to ask the question as to why they are asking for more money from us instead of designing a store that is genuinely good.
Less foam, more sighing because another person doesn’t really get what P2W game design looks like. I agree with the way the OP describes WoW as pretty low on the P2W scale primarily because the game doesn’t roadblock you like other games, but it’s undeniable that the game has a system in place now where you can take real-world wealth and give it to the developer for an in-game advantage, and that in-game advantage additionally allows you to buy a lot of progress within the game. Put whatever dumb label you want on that, that’s the reality of the situation.
Reading your posts just makes me realize you’ve probably never even explored the types of games with more blatant systems to accurately compare them to how WoW operates. You instead want to parse down the words of what is essentially a term describing a game system in order to ask all these deep questions about “What truly is winning?”, “What does it even mean to pay?” instead of asking yourself a really simple question; does this system/game/design allow you to turn real-world wealth into an in-game advantage? Because the other question to ask is if you think that’s good game design or not? Spoiler alert: I don’t.
At this point I’m going to move on from the thread though.
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You know how literally any PvP game works right? There is an MMR system where the VAST majority of people are purposely placed in mid to low ratings. Now it gets extra problematic when someone is buying a boost to take some of those higher rating spots. Then to top it off the boosters have a nice little item level advantage to make their boosting job that much easier.
100% pay to win man.
Don’t need to. Middle management gets the richest. It’s why they have record low Maus but record high profits. Pay to win is profitable. Keep ignoring the fact it’s bad design for investors profit and Bobby’s yachts.
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Good because I’m done arguing with someone that chastised me for not explaining my stance and when I did, cherry picked my post and only responded to points they could argue with.
It didn’t escape me that you ignored half my reasons.
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Yeah, but I have to question the value of out-of-game wealth when gold is in infinite supply. And again, it’s not impacting progression. By your own admission, a buyer has to continue buying carries. If the buyer wanted to do high keys or raids, the carry doesn’t open that door. He still has to start over with the progression. His logs won’t be good enough to get into even a casual mythic raiding guild.
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How are the boosters increasing the rating of the players that are paying? By just playing the game, right?
And you keep ignoring the fact that you can generate lots of gold without ever buying a token. Does a player who makes millions on the AH and spends their gold on a boost still p2w?
This is all player driven and has nothing to do with blizzard aside from taking place in their game.
If, for example, you rolled on a hypothetical server that had zero pvpers on it, you could buy all the tokens you wanted and would still be unable to pay for a rating boost. How is that p2w?
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These threads are all full of tomfoolery and pedantic individuals. Myself included.
That’s easy a casual is anyone who either plays less then me or is worse at the game then me and an elitist is someone who is better or plays more then me.
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Already dismantled all of those arguments in earlier posts as to why it had to be done and how WoW has mostly got rid of gold farmer by doing so and is a less of a bad place to be than with them spamming trade.
Also you keep trying to go back to simple statement, I addressed that in another similar thread.