Id like to know how they perform mostly in end game gear, and how they are as a fresh 60.
If that warlock is highly skilled, could that warlock be very deadly to most classes?
Warlock late in the game is going to be the best all around at everything in PVP. Weâre talking best gear in the game.
When I say all around I mean all of it. Duels, 1v1, 1vx, ganking, WPvP mayhem, BGs etc.
I would place Rogue, Mage and Shadow Priest as very close behind in those same categories.
Of course, all of those classes have a significant PVP skill cap as well in Vanilla, which surprises some people I guess.
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PVP will be full of Rogues and Warlocks - and this is what you will experience:
Fear. Stun. Fear. Stun. Fear. Stun. Fear. Stun. Fear. Stun. Fear. Stun. Fear. Stun. Fear. Stun. Fear. Stun. Fear. Stun. Fear. Stun. Fear. Stun. Fear. Stun. Fear. Stun. Fear. Stun. Fear. Stun. Fear. Stun. Fear. Stun. Fear. Stun. Fear. Stun. Fear. Stun. Fear. Stun. Fear. Stun. Fear. Stun. Fear. Stun. Fear. Stun. Fear. Stun. Fear. Stun.
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After ~ BWL level, warlocks get enough damage to 100-0 people in a CC lock and can become pretty terrifying to fight against.
A BWL geared SM/Ruin lock
A full Naxx bis (or near it) Lock
Neither of these videos are all that demonstrative of SKILL⌠but thatâs kind of the point of showing them, vs a higher skill indexed video⌠they just scaled to the point where they are blowing people right the hell up.
Fresh 60 they are weak/weaker but not useless, and you actually need to know more about how to actually play the class⌠Fear, for example, is arguably the strongest single spell in the game (particularly in that era, when CC was more limited, as well as gap closers to get back on target after being feared to Cambodia)
Rogues arenât even good by 1.12, unless they already have a significant gear advantage against their target⌠Casters/ranged and Warriors with significant healer support are the meta monsters. The one class I think youâll honestly see the most of is Mages⌠Every Pserver BG-pvp video Iâve ever seen is like 30% mages, with the majority of those being frost and just tag team dumpstering melee all day.
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You will melt faces as a shadow prâer, warlock in PvP.
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Yep, they are.
Like every class is good at pvp in classic, they just have their own things that make life better.
Yeah - sm/ruin is unbeatable in the right hands, soul-link is pretty much the noob spec if you have no actual talent at the game or reaction time.
I preferred the Shadow Mastery/Ruin spec. This is due to the spec allowing very good spell strength, and being good (not considered best) in raids. If you run a Sacrifice Pet/Ruin build you can get some good demo talents that buff utility like health stones/spell stones, and your petsâ abilities.
The pet I used most in pvp was the Felhunter. It could remove magic buffs from enemies, and magic debuffs from allies(self). Also, paranoia helped anyone in the group detect stealth by increasing the stealth detection radius a bit.
Shadow damage gear, Intelligence gear, and stamina gear seemed to scale best with the classâ strengths.
Like all classes, a fresh 60 is more vulnerable than a geared one. Warlocks are lucky in that there is some inherent âsturdinessâ in the class due to the fact that they tend to have high health for casters, and have a few ways to self heal. All that while doing moderate to high damage.
Warlock cannot âout nukeâ a mage. But, at any gear level, the longer the dots tick, the more the fight swings in favor of the warlock.
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Warlocks are kings in PvP. But they scale with gear, so like Warriors, they start fairly weak and end up very strong.
Now, your two nemesis are usually (Undead) Rogues and surprisingly good elemental Shamans (grounding totem, tremor, earth shock). Elemental Shamans have huge burst, and are generally good to counter any caster.
When I was on my warlock, I always hated dealing with mages and hunters due to being able to out-range me. And well-played rogues are always a pain to non tanks.
Wouldnt you be squishy as hell without SL? Like a geared warrior could prob just 2 shot one
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SL really isnât a big of a deal as people think. People who rely on SL to do anything in WPvP are wasting their potential. SL is seen as the ânewbâ player or the uninformed player.
There are multiple ways to actually play a warlock and considering how hard people can actually hit in classic compared to your health at numerous installments of the game 30% from SL was really not that big of a deal. Sure, SL could have uses in WPvP when playing against those who are worse then you, but SL isnât going to save you from the mage slinging them crits for well over half your health very early on.
Warlocks are straight up god mode in the hands of the skilled, just like most classes. However, we scale hard with gear and have an actual skill cap since we can viably play numerous ways.
While SM/Ruin was a good beginner spec it is and always has been the starter spec that you move out of later on. (Since I know people who didnât and they horribly suffered in performance, I canât spell today for some reason
)
May the first bring you joy, hail lord Drakedog (Because how can you not appreciate him?)
He is not modern as a lot of other warlocks but he maintained a very high skill ceiling from the Classic to MoP era in WPvP. He is the first.
Edit: I mean for goodness sake he is using dungeon gear and a MELEE crap tier sword as if he is mocking the people he pummels. There is a video where he actually slaps a warrior to death with his crappy little sword lol
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Warlocks are good in pvp. They counter Mages and do well against hunters. They also do well against Druids.
I still think Hunters are the best overall pvp class with rogues a close second, but warlock certainly have their place.
I would say their weakness is is that they are squishy. If they have a warrior in their face, and one of anything else⌠there is not much they can do.
Now warlocks do very well against newbs⌠and I think that is why they are getting the attention they do. A good warlock will just absolutely trash people who are not good at pvp.
Agree. I used to run in the wild with a Mage friend and I would swear up and down the two of us were invincible. Weâd go 2v5 easy. EASY. Tis why I like mages a lot, too. Itâs a good pairing between in your face nukes, dots and plenty of CC to go around.
I think the lock is a better all around PvP class but Iâd lie if I said I wasnât considering a mage due to their toolkit as well.
There are some videos Saqe made as frost, elemental and fire specs in open world and bgs, like 1 on 3s, that make me think I wNt to roll a mage for kiting And killing g multiple melee. I think I posted these before.
Edit- locks wonât have much issue killing mages.
SL / shadowburn is king of 1v1 only losing to a hunter that can outrange you ( not duels ). Damage mitigation is a little unintuitive. For example a 40 % decrease in damage doesnt mean an enemy has to do 40% more damage to kill you, they actually have to do about 67% more damage to kill you.
You can do the math, say you had 100 hp without sl a 100 damage ability would kill you. With soul link 167 damage x 0.6( 40% physical damage reduction from sl and md )would equal 100.2 damage done. Someone did the math on reddit and with decent gear, usuing cds and flasks you would 25k effective hp against melee.
As an experienced lock I feel the need to add a few things. PVP wise they are good. Early game, they lack good gear that has both spell power and stamina. Stamina being the single best stat for pvp in vanilla. After BWL they really start ramping up the power curve to maybe being the strongest pvp class. Warriors will still cause problems. However, if you are going to go pve spec and go sac, you are going to lose a lot of your pvp effectivness. Thus pvp locks are not the same as pve locks.
A lot of what makes locks great are their pets. If you go felhunter you get a magic dispell off of the enemy and you on a fairly short cooldown. For example, lets say you get put in a freezing tracp or get polymorphed. You can dispell this off of yourself.
Or you can go the succubus route. The Succyadds a charm cc. This is hard to beat. In fact, it is so hard to beat that many good pvpers will not respect a warlock who is not doing his pvp with the felhunter or voidwalker. With the Succyâs charm, you get an on command with no cooldown (one of only two ccâs like this in the game), you get 1 terror, 1 charm, 1 banish and if you are an engineer you get stuns or any number of fun pvp abilities. This is hard to beat.
Forum Mod Edit: This post has been edited by a moderator due to language. https://us.battle.net/forums/en/code-of-conduct/
Considering the fact that with SL/MD you are required to use the voidwalker which only considers the survival aspect of WPvP. You lose a fair wider tool kit for a 10% damage reduction also your math is not right.
100-(100*(1-(physical reduction from armor/resistances))(1-(0.30+0.10))) = Value
Warlock A has 20% physical reduction from armor, has 100 health, and has taken 100 physical damage from a source.
100-(100*(0.80)(0.60)) = 48 damage taken from the attack you received. That is the short hand, you could write it way longer which would look nicer but this is napkin math. You would need to deal 208 damage to a warlock in this scenario to kill him without overkill.
Edit: ^ The statement above only works when the caster is taking damage not including the pet, we then would need to do more to get the correct answer for double dipping and the pet armor etc etc.
To double check we simply do the following: 100-(208*(0.80)(0.60)=99.84 which works because the original number was actually 208.33 repeating.
If you have 100 health and you get hit for 100 with the selected talents and the VW out you, you would take 48 damage instead of 100.
> https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/awkeqv/just_some_quick_maths_behind_warlocks_soul_link/
This is the post you are referencing I am assuming. While he is technically not wrong he does not include armor or resistances into his math which is the flaw. Also this effective health you speak of is a specific example not an actual statistic. A warlock has 25k HP effective health against physical in his math IF you follow his instructions in that specific order, which is unreasonably in most situations at that occur to some people.
It also ignores the problem of double dipping against you and your pet. Soul Link is only a good talent prior to getting some decent BWL gear, then it loses any chance of meta. It is important to note anyone with a brain with instantly go for the succubus, imp, or doggo which hurts you more then the average person realizes.
With soul link 167 damage x 0.6( 40% physical damage reduction from sl and md )would equal 100.2 damage done.
they actually have to do about 67% more damage to kill you.
What you posted is wrong because, you included that 67% to what your base health in this situation would be then took the reduction into account which is just not correct. You would of been actually close to the correct answer if you took armor into account into the base health value. I can only assume you got those numbers from trying to do it backwards. However, it would of created a sizable margin of error.
Edit: I am not arguing against you, I do believe SL has use early on just not past a certain gear level, due to how much effective damage you loss. However, it is very beastly in wpvp I can not lie but when you run into an enemy that can just flat out deal that much damage regardless it becomes a race. I just noticed the math was abit lacking.
I keep coming back to edit because I keep forgetting to say something lol this is very effective past BWL in certain situations for example tanking the Twin Emps with the fel doggo. Very good.
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Warlockâs base kit is the strongest 1v1 in PvP. If anyoneâs going to beat you outside of farming mobs and you get jumped, itâs because
a) they outgear you significantly
b) they used engineering better than you did
c) they used unique items like SOID, tidal, or restorative potions
d) youâre bad at the game/got cocky.
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Fresh warlocks are essentially training dummies for melee, but can counter casters pretty well.
Geared warlocks are capable of steamrolling anything basically.