What is the significance of this make up? Why does so many raids want this number only, is this the magical amount that makes the raid possible?
Healers are designed to take on 3 dps and 1 tank so 1 healer for every set of 3. Also the bare minimum which is like saying know ehat youre doing in this group and lets get it knocked out
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It looks nice.
lmao.
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Back in the day I think it was because of break points on boss mechanics. Like, if you have 14 you get 2 bombs/soaks but if you have 15 you might get 3 bombs/soaks
These days I’m not sure if that still carries over or if it’s just what we’re used to. I’ve seen groups with big boy healers that can 2 heal a 14+ group, so it’s not really a hard requirement or anything.
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I’m in a 2/5/21 group right now.
People think 2/3/9 is easier because you get less potential players that lack skill and or dps, but really, it’s all about the vetting.
This so isn’t a hard rule at all. Like not even close.
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Yeah this is the real reason, that ratio used to actually matter, nowadays it’s just a well known ratio that is easy to follow and know you’re not going to be out of whack
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More people the harder it is in general. I much prefer smaller raid groups that are efficient. You need a heals for every 3 people in theory. Damage scales.
Pretty sure Blizzard removed the breakpoints like that and it just goes “if you’re guarenteed 2 at 10, 3 at 15, then at 14 you’d have 2.8 soaks” (2 soaks and 80% chance of 3rd).
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An outdated attempt at rigging the flex logic for mechanic avoidance while minimizing bodies but maintaining high relative performance. Less bodies = less mechanics and less potential for people to screw up while still being able to get all the key utility and maintain a decent ratio of healsers/DPS.
It stopped being relevant past SOO where, as I recall, Blizzard realized what people were doing and had mechanics have proportional chance for an extra affected player. So if you got an extra at every 5, you had an 80% chance at 14 bodies to get a 3rd affected player and a 20% chance to only get 2 affected players.
Nowadays it’s more trying to keep minimal bodies while maintaining what they think is a good ratio of healers to DPS…but it’s far too heavy on healing nowadays. When I ran pugs, I went with 2/3/11-12 if I was going to aim for any generic ratio. You do this because a lot of specs have a good bit of self sustain baked in and there is a lot of emphasis on avoidable damage where having an extra healer lulls people into a false sense of security where they can “eat mechanics” because we got extra healing to compensate.
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Not sure because 2/3/9 is healer heavy even though you see it all the time.
2/3/10 (15 man) would be better. You can even go 2/3/11 or 2/3/12 in a good group.
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It wasn’t even relevant in SoO. There was like 2 mechanics in the whole raid in Flex that had 14 player breakpoints. The rest had different breakpoints that didn’t favor 14 man.
But like all things WoW, once the community thinks its right, there’s no changing minds.
Or listen here. 2/3/15. It’s what most guilds use in Mythic on quite a lot of fights.
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It’s the law, the raid will automatically explode if you have 2/3/8 or 3/4/11 or 2/2/7, etc. according to pugs. Even though 2/3/10 is proportional to 2/2/6 with 2 tanks.
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Searches frantically on bookshelf for old Numerology text
I see pugs with this notion that once you go above this ratio the bosses become more difficult. They panic in chat that once you go higher the bosses health increases and damage becomes higher leading to a more likely wipe.
It most frustrating to get into groups that only want this number and you have to be able to wait for the next if you are not quick enough to sign up.
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I mean, I thought it was about maximizing loot pool.
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I think it mostly stems from fights in the past that ensure larger groups run out of space as well as the idea that 10 mans were easier to run in Wrath and such. Its also a matter of scheduling, its far easier to get 10 people to commit that it is to find 20 people and definitely 30 people if its a regular group.
As far as the ratio:
You only ever need two tanks (with very rare exceptions.)
Once you go above the minimum 10 players, you add hp to the boss for every additional player. This is the easiest effect to see immediately. Also means that if you add a dps player who does less damage than health they add to the boss, the system encourages you to kick that player.
Next is that some abilities will hit harder. These usually are group soak abilities that are designed to split damage across multiple players, so if the same % of the group helps the soak, the damage per player stays the same.
The last change is that some abilities will have more copies of the ability to deal with at certain breakpoints in group size. Some abilities have a static quantity regardless of group size. This often is the big determinant of why certain ratios work best, and can often be a boss by boss optimization.
Optimal break points as far as I remember are 11, 14, 23
Moo!
Edit: Ugh… How did I not realize this was a necro.
2-3-9 already lose 20% chance for extra loot. 2-3-10 is fine.
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If all players are equal in skill and gear - more is always better.
The problem is the difficulty in getting a large group that is equal in skill and gear vs a smaller group.
Lots of gaslighting trolls on these forums are convinced smaller raids are easier due to mechanics. They aren’t, they’re more difficult…Well at least they WERE, Blizz has started to address this FINALLY. It’s just that it seems easier, because they were in a competent group.
Well they just nerfed Sarkareth for 10 man but that’s 2-2-6 specifically.
I prefer larger raids because more loot.
We ran 25-30 man and seeing 5-6 pieces drop feels a lot better than 2 pieces dropping.
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can you run a 40 man in the current system?