Is there decidedly a ‘best’ pvp spec for rogues?

WoW Classic WoW Classic General Discussion
1

More or less?

2

there’s always a best spec depending on your playstyle and what you’re trying to do.

Rogue’s tend to have more spec combinations that are considered pvp viable tho

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For pvp with pure daggers, with no pve in mind. I enjoy this but to each their own.

https://classicdb.ch/?talent#fhxbMEzhZZEzcochRo

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If there was one do all?

Seal fate / Prep would be my best guess.

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Hemo sub with prep or seal fate, 2x swords was always the way to go, and a dagger swap for the ambush opener.
30/0/21 for pvp
21/0/31 was always good too.

6

Depends on gear and weapons.

Generally speaking a spec that takes Cold Blood and Preparation will be the “best” overall rogue PvP spec. You can make an argument for Deep Sub but it isn’t a strong one. The specific talents will depend on whether the expansion released 3 weeks ago and the rogue has Dal’rends equipped or whether we’re 2 years into Classic and he’s rocking 81 DPS daggers and bonescythe…

Edit: This is the one I’d use once I got two decent daggers (like a perd’s and corehounds or something)https://classicdb.ch/?talent#fheboxkZhfZVMgc0hoo

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Cold Blood with a slow/high dmg dagger into an ambush was always juice but I never lost a fight as a hemo, +3 physical damage + 5cp expose armor. Was painful.
Spec won’t matter as much as now it’s gonna be skill and gear. Because we’re not in 2006. We know how to keybind and position and move.
And if things are truly classic, gouge resets is gonna be something to learn.

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Dagger builds:

Prep Dagger-Imp Sprint This has become the meta on Pservers

Prep Dagger- CB This was the PvP build in OG vanilla…

120 Energy Seal Fate (requires Nightslayer gear for 10energy) This build was a bit of a PvE compromise build… but with 120 energy you could ambush->backstab—>tea/rentakis—>backstab —> CB evisc out of stealth and basically just do people dirty… Without the Nightslayer bonus combined with Vigor most seal fate builds skipped the 31st point in assass.

In every build’s case above there’s a couple of points that are free to move around… Improved Evisc, Imp SnD, Murder, Remorseless attacks, improved poisons in Assass are all choices… Precision and deflection–>riposte are potential options down the combat line, and Sub only the first 5 points in Opportunity are really “locks”…

I’d add that I’ve personally seen a bunch of builds that skip either ruthlessness or relentless strikes in assassination… and I genuinely don’t understand how people live without either of those two talents AS ANY SPEC. To each their own, I suppose.

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I just like CB/Prep because you can do a good opener into a 5cp EA, setup hemo, kidney into prep double ambush. Of course doing it correctly would be the challenge within itself.

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By “truly classic” you mean to suggest that gouge mechanics are currently incorrect mostly on private servers?

I’m wondering about stuff like this, because I’m genuinely curious and how it could be skewing general perception as to just exactly HOW GOOD rogues were in 1.12 vanilla pvp

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I don’t play private servers but on live before the changes and I don’t remember when that changed. Gouge was like 3 seconds? Long enough for you to restealth so as long as no bleeds/psns were up, gouge and reset a bad opener or if you ran into someone you couldn’t square up with. If perfected it, that skill was a game changer. Rogues back then had a pretty high skill ceiling. Tough to master all the nuances.

Human Perception was scary back then though. Because they would find you pretty quick

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Yes.

:cocktail:

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There are people who spec strangely in every class. Given how strong both those talents are I don’t honestly understand how any one does skip those given how much they push the tempo.

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Every build linked so far are garbage and will get u killed in competitive pvp.

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Sub has some insane CC chains in vanilla. I once killed a 57 druid on my 33 rogue from full health to dead and he never left CC.

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Care to elaborate, or link some build of your own?

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https://classicdb.ch/?talent#fhe0oxuZhZxMjocGRo
https://classicdb.ch/?talent#fhe0oxZhfM0bZy0Icc0o
https://classicdb.ch/?talent#fhe0oxuZhfZy0Icc0o

U will need atleast 3/5 MoD and 3/5 Camouflage in any decent PvP build unless Full Combat or Full Assas spec.
Full Combat and Full Assassination both require amazing/High caliber skill to pull off solo wpvp/1v1/1vX and good teammates/healers to pull off in competitive PvP bg’s/etc or else you will be killed left and right.

https://classicdb.ch/?talent#fhe0oxuZhfZAMGcc0o This one is really good. Dagger prep.
https://classicdb.ch/?talent#fhe0oxZhfM0bZAMGcc0o and this.

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You overvalue Camouflage, imo… The stealth CD reduction only matters in situations where you are immediately dropping combat again after your opener or the next couple of globals. You simply aren’t going to be catching THAT MANY people with their pants completely down, where you then also need to get back into stealth super rapidly in that 3-4 second window.

Now the speed boost in stealth is potentially another story for helping secure openers, but it’s still more than doable without it, unless there’s a specific situation that ~9% stealth speed is going to make/break you that I’m missing.

Finally the 2% dodge over impr-SS is where I struggle the most… Even with SS’s very limited ideal usage in a dagger build, it’s still better than 2% dodge… especially if you ever plan on doing anything outside of a bg. It’s not going to be like Pservers where you can facestab out in the world, and gouge-stabbing is atrociously slow.

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Believe me, 3 points in camo is awesome and a must. The base stealth speed is just too slow to get in on good players that know u r around. Rly good for rogue duels as well.

Any good dagger bs/ambush rogue will never ever need to use SS. Why spend 40 energy and do 700dmg crit when you can spend 60 energy and do 1400 crit… not to mention the extra 30 % crit on BS. If u r not comfortable with ur skills then go ahead and take imp SS.

Edit: I never played rogue on Pservers. Just R14 in vanilla and a multi rank1/gladiator in TBC. The moment I tried rogue on pservers they had it so wrong I just could not play one.

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I literally listed out a reason in my post…

Not to mention the situations where the person you’re fighting isn’t a complete troglodyte and can position themselves to prevent easy stabs, like on a ledge or when you’re getting peeled and snared to much to reach the target when about to energy cap (though I’ll be fair and admit things have already gone pretty horribly wrong if a rogue is ever in this situation)

So the argument is that you need the increased speed to secure your openers, seems a bit ironic considering that backhanded shot you closed with

9% speed to help you get your openers apparently. Fair enough.

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