Is there any debate that WoW is P2W?

[Deathfang-stormscale]

@Estalayia-borean-tundra

If you can simply define what “winning” means to you, we’d be good. But for some reason, answering it is too complicated, for whatever reason.

Why did you ignore my entire answer? Why would you ask for an answer, get an answer, and then just pretend to have not seen it?

[Aanthaala-aerie-peak]

Most of the stuff you guys mention is just vanity you don’t need mythic+ or hardcore raiding you want it. P2w is when you hit a wall and must pay to continue ir grind for months i have never hit that point in wow. So wow is not p2w just know your character and class your good to go. The gold you get from raiding and quests are more than enouph to gem and enchant and get flasks and food.

[Estalayia-borean-tundra]

@Deathfang-stormscale

Why did you ignore my entire answer?

I didn’t.

@Deathfang-stormscale

Why would you ask for an answer, get an answer

But, you didn’t answer it.

[Jezbirt-daggerspine]

@Snozy-thrall

Tell us you have never played an actual pay to win game without telling us you have never played a real pay to win game.

Only bad players say this game is pay to win.

Tell us you don’t know what the ad hominem logical fallacy is without telling us you don’t know what it is. As to your “point,” no one has said WoW is even close to the worst of pay to win games. But pointing out that other things exist and are worse doesn’t mean you can’t buy character power/gear for cash in multiple ways in WoW. That’s just the reality, whether you like it or not.

[Sandd-ragnaros]

since with real money i can pay a professional gamer to play for me and win, by this argument every game is pay2win (even chess, or twister)

[Deathfang-stormscale]

@Estalayia-borean-tundra

But, you didn’t answer it.

I gave you three different examples of what “winning” would be in WoW.

[Hoheh-quelthalas]

If I were able to get a piece of armor or weapon through the shop that I could only get there, and it was better than equivalent pieces I could get through content, that would be Pay2Win.

If I were able to get a temporal buff that increased my character’s effectiveness, and I could only get it through real money, that would be Pay2Win.

If I were able to unlock certain skills only through real money, that would be Pay2Win.

If I had a special item that reduced the boss’ health by 50%, and I could only but that item through real money, that would be Pay2Win.

If I could pay for resurrects in a fight, that didn’t count against the normal limit, using real money, that would be Pay2Win.

[Snozy-thrall]

@Jezbirt-daggerspine

Tell us you don’t know what the ad hominem logical fallacy is without telling us you don’t know what it is. As to your “point,” no one has said WoW is even close to the worst of pay to win games. But pointing out that other things exist and are worse doesn’t mean you can’t buy character power/gear for cash in multiple ways in WoW. That’s just the reality, whether you like it or not.

Ahh the bad troll is talking again.

PS this game isnt pay to win no matter how bad you are at this game.

[Jezbirt-daggerspine]

@Aanthaala-aerie-peak

P2w is when you hit a wall and must pay to continue ir grind for months i have never hit that point in wow.

You are arbitrarily defining an especially bad form of pay to win as pay to win itself. Paying to win is just paying for advantages over others. Pay to win doesn’t imply that you are absolutely required to pay extra money to progress or reach certain content; only that it is possible to obtain competitive advantages over players who spend less or nothing, other things being equal.

[Estalayia-borean-tundra]

@Jezbirt-daggerspine

Tell us you don’t know what the ad hominem logical fallacy is without telling us you don’t know what it is.

Says the one who said all this to me:

@Jezbirt-daggerspine

It’s child-like and astonishingly naive

@Deathfang-stormscale

I gave you three different examples of what “winning” would be in WoW

No, you didn’t. You gave examples of what people do in the game with what they bought but didn’t classify it as “winning”.

[Snozy-thrall]

@Deathfang-stormscale

I gave you three different examples of what “winning” would be in WoW.

And all three examples were bad.

[Deathfang-stormscale]

Okay, then I classify those examples as winning.

@Snozy-thrall

And all three examples were bad.

Okay, if you don’t like the way I play, then what’s your end goal(s) then?

[Tootens-frostmourne]

@Cäynä-hyjal

@Snozy-thrall

The term “pay to win” actually means that the item you’re purchasing is only available through the cash shop.

Exactly.

Anyone that thinks WoW is P2W hasn’t actually played a P2W game.

P2W is like hopping into a racing game and one of your opponents have a rocket launcher on their car from the cash shop and proceeds to blow everyone up.

[Estalayia-borean-tundra]

@Deathfang-stormscale

Okay, then I classify those examples as winning.

OK, ty. Just to be sure, I’m assuming this is classified as “winning”:

@Deathfang-stormscale

When someone needs just A LITTLE BIT better numbers to keep their raid spot, and they buy gold to buy some BOEs. Those BOEs push them over the edge, and they have beaten the person trying to take their spot from them.

While, I disagree, I respect your perspective a little bit more.

[Snozy-thrall]

@Tootens-frostmourne

Anyone that thinks WoW is P2W hasn’t actually played a P2W game.

P2W is like hopping into a racing game and one of your opponents have a rocket launcher on their car from the cash shop and proceeds to blow everyone up.

Thank you…

[Snozy-thrall]

@Estalayia-borean-tundra

While, I disagree, I respect your perspective a little bit more.

He clearly has never raided at any respectable level if he thinks people are losing their raid spots because of BoEs

[Estalayia-borean-tundra]

They (at least) answered the question.

[Snozy-thrall]

@Deathfang-stormscale

Okay, if you don’t like the way I play, then what’s your end goal(s) then?

You are 243ilvl you dont even play the game.

[Deathfang-stormscale]

@Snozy-thrall

He clearly has never raided at any respectable level if he thinks people are losing their raid spots because of BoEs

I raided heroic nath as a holy paladin, but that’s besides the point. It doesn’t need to be “At a respectable level” or even in a respectable guild. Most guilds I have been in take being on top of HPS and DPS seriously.

[Sabetha-turalyon (Sabetha)]

@Estalayia-borean-tundra

I’d have much more respect if people just gave out their opinion as to what it means to “win the game”. For me, it’s leveling all classes (and specs) to level cap, all reps and professions (and their respective “specs”) completed, every mount collected, all races capped and complete every achievement.

I’m inclined to say that the answer here is “who cares?”.

Can anybody bickering here seriously say that, even if we all agreed on the definition of pay to win, we’d suddenly change our minds about how we feel about buying gold in WoW?

At the end of the day I think it’s overall bad for the health of the game and the playerbase. What I refer to that practice as is utterly irrelevant to what I believe about it. If you got me to agree it’s not P2W I would not turn around and go “Oh well okay, it’s perfectly fine then” because it’s not.

Likewise, if the people defending it agreed that it was P2W I doubt they’d turn around and start hating it. They’d just say “Okay it’s P2W, but it’s very minor P2W and not bad at all”.