Its 2022, and “tanking” came from DND days, EQ1 days…decades and decades ago. Its obvious there is an internal class war going on of healers+dps vs tanks. A lot of tanks aren’t happy with how players treat them (unless they make their own group or just play with a tiny group of people), and also tanks seem to have most fun when they are OP and if they are weak don’t want to actually be a tank.
Which brings me back…is tanking just an archaic role that has no place in modern MMOs? GW2 did away with it, its just dps and heals. And it works fine enough, makes combat very actiony/skill based instead of one role just soloing everything and not needing anyone or that one role just taking too much healers time when they could focus on healing dps or doing dps if dont need to heal. Many tanks don’t even sound like they even like the role unless they can solo everything and not rely on anyone, they need to be super OP to actually be a tank. A good example is the massive influx of protection warriors, only because how OP it was (and still is, now its #1 most OP tank since they got the least amount of nerfs).
It makes balancing everything much harder and too much conflict comes from healer/dps and tanks. A lot of toxicity is because of that single role. It may not be the tank (or person behind it) itself causing the toxicity, but if you took the role out…toxicity would drop a ton, balance would be vastly easier and you can focus on what everyone (even tanks it seems) wants to do…dps/heals.
Healers would be happy because they can just focus on heals and damage in downtime. DPS would be the happiest because they wouldn’t need to worry about someone screaming at them if the tank is going to slow (or too fast).
Sure would solve a ton of balance problems and community issues without that role. I mean, if most of these posts on the forums are anything to go by, tanking I guess is only fun if gotta be super OP to have fun with it. Kinda doesn’t sound like its actually fun, plus who wants to be screamed at by random strangers anyway because its lose/lose…too fast…to slow…no middle ground.
Yes, let’s have 4 DPS each pulling their own mobs and running every which way because one wants to go slow and one wants to go fast. That will work out so much better!
well yeah, and granted not every MMO has a problem of tanks+dps+heals not getting along. But in WoW’s case, it does seem like a lot of people don’t really want the role to exist as tanks want to exist (for most part). A lot of people seem to want tanks to be super super weak like brewmaster, which kinda defeats the purpose of a tank. Then again, healers and dps dont want to be left on the sidelines and watch one role solo everything.
I’d say its definitely both a player+balance problem. But not much middle ground that I can see can be had. Do people deal with massive tank shortages by making all tanks weak like brewmaster? Or do people deal with one role soloing and being gods in groups?
well the point is…like I said above…do we make all tanks brewmaster style and need to be forced to rely on healers? Which will make massive tank shortages because most tanks dont seem to want to be a brewmaster. Even brewmasters hate being brewmasters or do we make tanks super OP and allows far more tanks to be played, at the expense of TWO roles (but no tank shortage anymore)?
yeah which is pretty much goes back to my OP of…is tanking specifically an archaic role, or just let anyone tank/dps/heal. Tbh, most dps classes can already heal really well AND some can tank really well (warlocks even after nerfs)
I think there is a difficulty/pacing problem on the game side. In my experience, it is fun to be challenged by a game. If the dungeons (it seems like that’s what the conversation is mostly about) are designed in such a way that the enemies don’t pose much threat to the party, then it’s not unreasonable that players want to create their own challenge by pushing the limits on
I think its the extra responsibility a tank has to take on. They don’t just tank. They lead the group through a route, needing to know the mob groups, which will aggro, which you can skip, and their patrol routes. Theyre supposed to know every boss mechanic. They set the pace. They determine how stressful or difficult the run will be in the healer. Everybody else just shows up and focuses on their role within the group.
Also, sorry I kind of went off track and didn’t respond to the prompt exactly. I think the question of whether or not tanks are still necessary is a good one and has merit – “because it has always been that way” is never a good reason to continue doing something.
That said, personally, I really enjoy tanking, but I think maybe you’re right that we don’t need tanks the way they exist right now. I don’t think that the role of tank should be: An unkillable enemy magnet. The only party member taking damage. Rather, I think that the tank character should be one that has more survivability than other party members at the expense of damage, and has abilities to manage aggro. What I mean by manage aggro is: I don’t think it should be a guarantee that every enemy in a group always targets the tank. I think tanks should have to actively work to manage aggro and mitigate damage, and that if a pull is large enough, even DPS will have to be targeted sometimes because a tank shouldn’t be so beefy that they can survive 10 - 20 mobs attacking them.
this sounds more what I was thinking tbh, but you definitely put what I was imagining into words FAR more than I could have done actually.
Also to the above post above yours, by archaic…I don’t exactly mean its just a super old role. I mean archaic more in that, is it an actually needed role as(Urendil puts it) that should be different these days than how it currently works.
I do know there has always been healers and dps just as long. And even then, most dps act as their own healer really and healers can do dps besides just healing granted not as good damage but still. It seems over time two roles really are blending in with each other…except the tank role. (granted to add, warlocks are rather tanky as far as dps goes as I 've said above)
And the tank role does seem to be the center of strife and conflict amongst players, and balancing issues.
hm, no I didnt put it in best words. I think like I said above, as Urendil greatly puts it, the role as it exists could be different. Definitely not asking to remove prot warriors or paladins or vengeance or anything like that. But maybe more weaved in with the other two roles, like dps/healer sorta are becoming weaved in together. Since a lot of dps classes sure have a lot of sustain these days and can heal for quite a nice amount (even mages)
I don’t wanna play a WoW where every dungeon or raid is DPS bouncing the boss between themselves, sounds awful especially with how selfishly some DPS can play at times.
or do we make tanks super OP and allows far more tanks to be played, at the expense of TWO roles (but no tank shortage anymore)?
