Is the game built to be overwhelming and not obvious to learn and teach without outside resources?

[Duskvin-sargeras]

Web blades on mythic oneshot you. Mythic players hate them . It just a one pop in mind because they still have problems with addons

The reason it is so much hated is it overlaps.

@Brewa-hyjal

It’s always people who don’t do the content

Funny I dont need be there to know how an game works and been told by people who killed it. and yes those people are tettles/dratnos and max. They multiples time said Web blades are insane even with addons.

So they do help. Also WA do so much.

[Shadybolt-thrall]

@Kaercha-area-52

You do need it. Which you’d know if you ever tried it. You’re not raiding mythic or doing high keys without addons. And that’s the royal “you”.

It’s always someone whose seasonal goal is KSM and AotC talking about how they “don’t need addons”. Yeah, you don’t need addons to be carried in trivial content. Get off that high horse and listen to people who’ve been there.

Bearington ‹Gray Parse› @ Illidan (US)

That’s Thor from Pirate Software. He raids Mythic and demonstrates that you don’t need it up until a point. That’s why I’m not sure because of Mythic raiders saying that they need it for Ovinax. But this is an anomaly, not a precedent.

Furthermore, when you look at streamers doing high keys, mythic raid, PvP - anything high-end endgame content … most of the really good ones don’t use addons that have anything to do with the game. It is usually a bunch of UI, QoL stuff, or other things akin to that.

So no, you don’t need addons to do high content. You need to know what you are doing, and that ain’t a high horse in any way shape or form. Get off your high horse for pretending that one need addons when one doesn’t.

@Kaercha-area-52

What is even your motivation for posting? You’re trying to argue with someone about their own experience. Did you forget it’s not 2012 anymore?

I really need to ask you the very same. Your first post in this thread is literally a “Let’s blame Ion for stuff”, weird assertions you cannot back up such as “pull counts is now the metric for difficulty”, and then a weird “the game was better back when moving as a group into positive and negatively charged groups.”

And now you are arguing with me, about someone else making a false assertion, that on top of it also missed the larger point I was making, making you miss it two times over.

@Duskvin-sargeras

But yet only 56.00% of mythic+ players timed a 2 in the US for season 1. Its not just the newer players. A lot of players are just playing thier way. New players ARE NOT encouraged to read anything. Look at Day9 playing wow he an new to wow retail and classic. He got overwhelm in retail. He is an gamer so he knows how to understand spells and mechs.

If you jump straight into the endgame as opposed to level your character, yes. Which is why the game HEAVILY disincentivizes you from just using a boost to get into the endgame and recommends you levelling a character first.

Also, as someone who has watched Day9 for years, he’s not a gamer … he’s a presenter and entertainer. Quite literally. His big breakthroughs have always come from his work presenting games (broadcaster, SC2 caster, DotA, Hearthstone, regular presenter at different game shows, etc.), not from playing games or doing anything of the sort. His gaming literacy is appallingly poor - but he is absolutely AMAZING at presenting games and being entertaining.
But someone running around in a room going “What’s happening?! I refuse to read or to follow the suggestions the game makes because I know better!” - most of it done mostly as a joke but also because he genuinely doesn’t know better.

---

This entire thread is literally just some folks making assertions, and then folks know who know better telling said assertion making folks “no you don’t need that, just be better.”

It is such a weird thing folks want to pretend to be the case, when folks over and over again showcase it to not be the case. Just plain ol’ weird.

[Kaercha-area-52]

I guess random YouTuber knows better than 100% of top guilds. Great position to take

And I’m gonna need links to any “top streamers” doing bosses without addons. That’s not happening at all outside of being carried.

Gaming is a business. Teams wouldn’t have developers on staff to create something that they didn’t need.

Why do you think 21st man has become so prevalent?

[Duskvin-sargeras]

@Shadybolt-thrall

If you jump straight into the endgame as opposed to level your character, yes. Which is why the game HEAVILY

The game does not helps the new player learn in anyway. They are overwhelm at the start even leveling.End game has whole other problems itself.

@Shadybolt-thrall

His gaming literacy is appallingly poor

Really? all those require knowing mechs and understanding of the game enough to present it right for all watching. That better knowledge carry over to other games. He has played other games top of those at high level. So his pool of game knowledge is honestly better than most. Even max an top 1% player was surprised on the podcast.

@Shadybolt-thrall

most of it done mostly as a joke but also because he genuinely doesn’t know better.

He was seriously trying to play both so not he was just sick of the nonsense retail had and pointless info at the start of leveling he was in BFA.

@Shadybolt-thrall

This entire thread is literally just some folks making assertions, and then folks know who know better telling said assertion making folks “no you don’t need that, just be better.”

The thread has an point as the small pool who does not play with addons are not the average joe and most of them are not the 1%. So they don’t care to have the help doesn’t mean everyone else doesn’t need them. Stop using the very small pool of skilled players saying the whole base can be like that.

Most players use addons as a crutch to be “good” so your point is pointless to the wider pop of player who can’t play at that level.

@Kaercha-area-52

I guess random YouTuber knows better than 100% of top guilds. Great position to take

love he just stopped replaying

[Dather-sargeras]

Honestly It really is, The amount of knowledge someone needs is insane and an newer player won’t have time to learn M+ in just a week. If they remove any outside info. Than the skill floor of players will drop. The level of keys and raid groups will be more toxic.

[Velviita-windseeker]

@Robokappa-sargeras

yes. it’s bloated and bloated some more.

Nice, we can agree on this. lol

[Tannaine-moon-guard]

Man I saw a thread on the hunter section of the forums where somebody was saying unless you are a hardcore player who only goes for ranked content you aren’t a “citizen” of the game and don’t get to give any feedback on anything lol Always wild to read these forums I gotta say.

[Flower-kelthuzad]

I was watching some old world first kills last night and the thing that stood out to me the most is how bad people’s internet connections were in some of these videos despite being in world first guilds.

Like, in the world first Lich King kill at the very start of the fight the main tank disconnects and then comes back lol. Could you imagine that happening nowadays?

I think the game is more complicated now simply because it can be. Because most people have way better internet than back in the day, way better computers, etc. This game used to be a lot more simple because otherwise it probably would have been unplayable because of how bad people’s internet/computers were.

[Agrranna-azgalor]

I use add-ons and they sometimes help and sometimes hinder.

Is the game over bloated, yes. But that’s what happens when you play a 20 year old game.

Gameplay, itself, really hasn’t changed…all that much. You create a toon and you make your way through quests to advance the story.

The issue I have is this…I have two toons that I have leveled up through every expac starting with Crusades. The rest of my alts I level in one area and immediately prompts me to the new expac at level 70.

The new leveling has taken away from the story, especially if you are brand spanking new to the game. It doesn’t help that there are key quest chains that are broken.

So, to answer your question…WoW wasn’t meant to overwhelm…it just evolved that way.