Is the dev team lost?

[Shádôw-ravencrest]

@Shádôw-ravencrest

To elaborate just a little on how I and many, many others feel about the state of the game. Over the years, the whole RPG aspect of this game has been fleshed out. It started as an MMORPG today it feels like its an MMOA (massive multiplayer online arcade). I put in my quarter, pick a character and go pewpew one of the 3 options you’ve given me (M+, Raids or PvP). In order to continue on, I just keep popping in quarters every so often.

What I think your missing is that every playstyle (casual, hardcore, PvP, PvE etc.) relies on the RPG depth and is what ties it all together and makes it great and engaging.

I’m sorry but I feel like, you (Ion) and everyone else on the team has been doing this too long. You’ve moved away from the fantasy (RPG) of the world and look at it through numbers, charts and graphs. You’ve sized the game and as the years go by refuse to let it grow as you keep pruning and altering it, keeping it contained (shrinking in a lot of cases) as much as possible with a ‘plug-n-play’ type approach. I feel like developers today don’t log-in for the fantasy and community anymore but rather to figure out if the ‘system’ is working properly.

This is what I said a few days ago on this very same subject

[Svenska-caelestrasz (Svenska)]

No thanks.

I don’t want the old content relevant now and I sure don’t want to need a five man group to wipe my rear end.

[Phydeaux-windrunner (Phydeaux)]

But for me…it’s a game designed around spreadsheets, instead of creativity and fun. Whoever is calling the shots with the “endless grinding” systems has pushed a 15 year WoW veteran away.

This is why you have MVP cred for me. You aren’t trying to prove others wrong in your posts, you’re stating your opinion and let the chips fall where they may.

[Ryuk-thrall (Ryuk)]

I agree with you on this. I always ALWAYS laughed when people claimed wow is dying. I honestly think that if things don’t improve it actually will die off this time.

Now before the white knights come for my throat, when I say die off I mean the majority of the players just get apathetic and stop caring/playing even if meaningful changes take place.

[Tannaril-area-52 (Tannaril)]

Given the show all signs of thinking that turning Horde characters into villains in their own story would be a fun moment for Horde players. I really think they just didn’t understand how it would be for the players.

I have submitted questions to the Q&A about what they were thinking, but they don’t seem to be taking Lore and Plot questions anymore.

[Bonekollektr-azjolnerub]

I agree with you on this. I always ALWAYS laughed when people claimed wow is dying. I honestly think that if things don’t improve it actually will die off this time.

Now before the white knights come for my throat, when I say die off I mean the majority of the players just get apathetic and stop caring/playing even if meaningful changes take place.

With activision firmly in control now, I think WOWs days are very numbered> they dont want to support old games, They want brand new games, no matter if they are bad or good, so they can boost stock prices. Fun be damned

[Pikkarg-bleeding-hollow (Pikkarg)]

I don’t want the old content relevant now

Many do. You aren’t the only client here.

I sure don’t want to need a five man group to wipe my rear end.

I hope not. That said who equates playing a game to wiping their rear end?

[Svenska-caelestrasz (Svenska)]

The point is lost on you.

In EverQuest you couldn’t so much as breathe without a group. I do not want that, nor does a large portion of the player base.

If I did want that, I’d play a game that had that, much like a relevant old content.

I play Wow now after 15 years, because I like how it is now. I don’t have the inclination to play how it used to be anymore, and I’m certain there’s others in my situation. It’s a balancing act, but I sure af don’t want the old wow back.

[Pikkarg-bleeding-hollow (Pikkarg)]

The point is lost on you.

I’m good actually.

In EverQuest you couldn’t so much as breathe without a group. I do not want that, nor does a large portion of the player base.

The game restricted your choices because it was designed to be an MMO. You’re not sitting down to play a lobby game.

That you don’t want it is fine. There are literally thousands of single player games with chat box “MMO” qualities out there.

If I did want that, I’d play a game that had that, much like a relevant old content.

Much like a contrarian in the general forums you seem to want the single player Warcraft game that Blizzard could have made.

That is not the majority of people who play this game.

I play Wow now after 15 years, because I like how it is now. I don’t have the inclination to play how it used to be anymore, and I’m certain there’s others in my situation. It’s a balancing act, but I sure af don’t want the old wow back.

There are others. Most of those people are long gone. Why are you still here? Don’t you think coming to a forum for an MMO of all things your input is poison? Do you seriously think the people coming to the game now, not 15 years prior are actually looking for community? Do you think it’s your place to tell them to kick rocks?

[Searik-skullcrusher (Searik)]

the dev team don’t look at developing to make the game fun, they look at developing to solve any particular problem they believe exists.

I like that, the best I’ve been able to put it into words is “Robotic responses” where they try to solve it in an almost Spock-like manner.

[Pharsalus-thorium-brotherhood (Pharsalus)]

Whoever is calling the shots with the “endless grinding” systems has pushed a 15 year WoW veteran away.

Dude, they’re gonna take your green text away if you keep that up.

[Primalmatter-stormrage (Primalmatter)]

Yes I think that basically sums it up. I wanted BfA to do well, defended it for 3-4 weeks then stopped playing, joined FFXIV, and the community are amazing as is the game. No more money for anything Blizz until they find a way to reconnect to what it is that makes a good game and community.

The problem is they have to find a community to make it a positive one. WoW or any game can’t ever come together with a community so fractured and disjointed as it currently is. The best they can hope for until they manage to shrink the number of different camps is hope for small bastions of communities in as sea of silent npc like players.

[Perifery-thrall (Perifery)]

Call me pessimistic but I don’t think the game will move in a positive direction until Ion is replaced. He seems to have a real low opinion of the playerbase and insists that the game has to be dumbed down as much as humanly possible to keep us poor stupid players from making a “wrong” decision.

The game is barely recognizable as WoW anymore.

This. #firehazzikostas

[Ghaghzull-moon-guard (Ghaghzull)]

When see this title, I thought this song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrXTS10h2WI

[Boddynox-moon-guard]

Hey, though…as usual, graphic and sound design is on point. Have yet to be disappointed by them.

[Nekrosh-uther (Nekrosh)]

The problem is you’re always going to have some level of discourse in the community. I think the bigger problem is the complete lack of “meaningful” community engagement. Everything feels so one-way when it comes to how this team deals with it’s player base it doesn’t surprise me that a lot of the design decisions feel “out of touch”.

It’s all fine and dandy for them to take an issue at face value, but if they’re not coming back and engaging the players to get more detail into the “why” they feel a certain way they will never understand the whole problem. When they do acknowledge detailed feedback they come across as completely dismissive and show a complete lack of player perspective.

In the end you get players that feel like their being ignored and game systems and fixes that really don’t address the core issues.

[Tsavis-area-52 (Tsavis)]

Exactly and I had to laugh when bellular described the PVP vendor solution it was so convoluted it was ridiculous I can’t even remember how to do it but apparently that’s supposed to be simpler than going to a vendor with your Conquest points

[Flowermilk-proudmoore]

I think Belluar worded it best: the dev team don’t look at developing to make the game fun, they look at developing to solve any particular problem they believe exists.

Well yeah, no duh. “Fun” is subjective, and with a community of players that are so different and enjoy so many different things, of course they’re not going to be like “This is what we think is fun so deal with it if you don’t think it’s fun, too”. With that in mind, what else would they design the game around if not solving problems that people have brought up to them?

For example, artifact weapons, that were pretty popular, were a solution to all the complaints about bringing back old style talent trees.

[Cyouskin-stormreaver (Cyous)]

This is why you have MVP cred for me. You aren’t trying to prove others wrong in your posts, you’re stating your opinion and let the chips fall where they may.

Depends on the topic. Some folks are objectively wrong or overtly rude. Criticisms are fine. Opinions are fine. I have no issue playing the shill when people say dumb things.

Dude, they’re gonna take your green text away if you keep that up.

Then who we lick their boots?! The tech MVPs?!

But seriously, they’re actually very welcoming of criticism. Be dishonest with your own feedback isn’t helpful. Just needs to be respectful and fair.

[Daiza-kelthuzad (Daiza)]

I think Belluar worded it best: the dev team don’t look at developing to make the game fun, they look at developing to solve any particular problem they believe exists.

Well yeah, no duh. “Fun” is subjective, and with a community of players that are so different and enjoy so many different things, of course they’re not going to be like “This is what we think is fun so deal with it if you don’t think it’s fun, too”. With that in mind, what else would they design the game around if not solving problems that people have brought up to them?

For example, artifact weapons, that were pretty popular, were a solution to all the complaints about bringing back old style talent trees.

You’re not wrong, but based on what we’ve seen with things like the Azerite system and the pvp vendor issue, while fun is in fact subjective it doesn’t look like anything of the sort is even considered. At best they seem to be working off the assumption “If they do the content, then they are having fun.” without a care of if that content itself is actually fun.