Was the game originally implemented with warriors and rogues being able to equip and use ranged weapons? Yes or no?
We all know the answer is yes.
The game was originally designed with ranged being an aspect of warriors and rogues.
Therefore, I assume you would have no problem with both warriors and rogues losing one of their specs to create a new ranged spec for each that does not use melee weapons?? Ranged weapon only. If they need a one-off melee attack, a magic blade weapon can pop out of their wrist as needed. But no equipping melee weapons. Sound good? I assume there will be no outcry from the existing warriors and rogues - after all they would each still have 2 melee specs to play…
Note to all warriors and rogues - I do not believe this is a good idea. I would not want warriors and rogues to lose a spec, just as I did not want to lose a spec.
It’s actually hard to compare this situation because going from being melee to being ranged can be seen as an upgrade. The main problem here is having ranged and melee in the same class is always difficult: a ranged Rogue or Warrior spec would likely overshadow the other DPS specs and then Rogues would feel pressured to abandon the melee style they came to the class to enjoy in favour of a ranged spec for viability reasons. This is why I’m opposed to making any melee specs ranged.
The hypothetical I like to use is taking Stealth away from a Rogue spec: a clear loss in capability and a mockery of the core class concept for the sake of being more unique. The problem is I’ve met people who genuinely think it’s a good idea.
Chasing uniqueness above all else is an extremely toxic design philosophy that comes up a lot in all video game design. Things need to be unique with merit. Aim to be Metroid Prime, not Metroid Other M.
Here’s your problem… I wouldn’t care. At the end of the day it’s a game. I may not like the change (I’d try it out and go from there), but I wouldn’t lose a moment’s sleep. And I certainly wouldn’t spend 6 years incessantly whining about it.
Case in point, I’ve played rogue since vanilla. And yet I just posted the other day I wouldn’t mind if they turned one of the specs into a dual wielding pistol class. My identify is not so wrapped up in a video game character that I would type a book out whining about it every day for 6 years straight.
You dont even play the spec. You havent got a clue per usual.
so by that logic it was the same as MM Like I said a million times. GG
You dont play survival, so why would anyone care what you think about the spec?
Death knights is an axe and they can use swords so what kind of reach is this argument again? Just touch some grass seriously. Homie nuked you from orbit.
If it isn’t, it’s close, I think fun is the thing the people who built the spec were most concerned with, fun. Really, I think it was said “It needs to be fun. Make it happen.” And they came through.
No major star in any area, the spec can hold its own and get the job done, and a bit more than that in PvP.
The fun part is the spec has enough tools that “getting the job done” can be accomplished using differing styles of play. (not too long ago, all specs could say this.)
Terrible, the images your quote inspires. A mentally challenged nobody with a profusion of body-hair, mumbling through non-existent teeth, " I wanna gun, bring back Ranged Surv…"
LoL, I can’t say I agree with “the most fun” bit, but the rest is absolutely true, but even more so, when applied to SV-Mop and SV-WoD.
Back then, playing SV, you couldn’t be bad and get by, but now?
I HATE SV HUNTER and will never play it as long it is this garbage spec. You should make a new hunter toon and play survival spec from the start and level with it and see if you enjoy it.
Edit: other people’s opinion can help but when it comes down to it , what you play , how you play and what makes you happy is what you go with.
There are better melee out there. Aoe in m+ is ok, but the pre-.5 ST build/leggo is complete garbage play. The new vent st build might be ok, but only time will tell.
So fun it’s the least played spec in the game. RSV was one of the most popular at the height of hunter popularity. I love how people keeping telling us that we should just forget about a spec we had lots of fun with because they are having fun. Can’t we have both? Can’t we all just agree to the two spec option?
Letting bad design slide isn’t a virtue, you know.
This still isn’t pointing out any mistakes. What do you think I’m saying about the spec that’s wrong?
The description of Rogues has them all using dual-wielding and stealth. That does not mean all 3 of their specs are the same thing. That means that’s the foundation of the class that each spec builds on.
Hunters had a common foundation of ranged weaponry while each spec built on that in different ways. As you said on your Youtube channel SV was a different approach than MM.
Playing a Hunter is what informs me that Survival doesn’t fit the class and the change from ranged to melee was evidently a negative one.
Besides; you guys act like I’ve never touched the spec. Like I said I’ll never play it on this character. I made that promise back when it was announced. However I had one of the earliest beta invites here for BFA and Shadowlands and I did test Survival. There’s even a video of me playing it on my own Youtube channel.
This doesn’t actually respond to what I said. There’s a huge difference between using swords instead of axes i.e. both melee weapons and using a melee weapon when the class is built and themed around ranged weapons.
It was consistently popular from 3.0 launch until 6.2 which gutted the spec to unplayability in the leadup to Legion. In that time it had tuning ups and downs like any other spec. In periods where it really was overtuned such as Dragon Soul and Highmaul it was easily the most played spec in the game but most of the time it was tuned very fairly v.s. the other specs and still saw a lot of play e.g. all of MoP.
Meanwhile melee SV remains unpopular even when it’s overtuned e.g. Uldir.
This is always the excuse SV Hunters use; like people will suddenly enjoy the spec if they learn the ins-and-outs of its rotation. If melee isn’t for me it’s not for me, and that’s not to mention the absence of any coherent identity or thematic focus. Besides: at the time SV’s focus regeneration was bugged and the intended playstyle of the spec didn’t function and I was working it out with people in the Survival discord during the stream. I tried it later and surprise surprise it still wasn’t for me.
Until anyone in this thread can actually point out a fallacy in my arguments that’s a result from my limited exposure to Survival this will continue to be a farcical distraction.
I played MM up to Legion and have been survival almost exclusively. It is the first and only melee class I can play, and I absolutely love the versatility, it’s speed, and its burst. If you find a cat that knows how to work with you, 2s are fun any time. Of course, that was prior to this expansion, there is so much PVE in the game now I don’t play the toon just use it to dump rating on other DPS toon or as a dummy simply for CPs.
That was very different the last few expansions in which Rival was relatively easy to get in the two DPS of ferel/sh, and at times up to Duelist.
By “that time”, are you pointing to a specific patch or are you talking about the entire existence of the playstyle that was RSV? A playstyle that existed the moment they started adding those in WotLK up until 6.2 in WoD when they destroyed it.
Ofc it wasn’t always the most popular hunter spec, but if you look at the median representation of all 3 specs during those expansions, you will see how SV(RSV) was the highest one. During those expansions, it for sure wasn’t always overtuned. That only happened on a few occasions, but even outside of those, it was still regularly highly represented, both in PvP as well as in PvE.
