Is survival hunter fun? why is it fun?

Classes Hunter
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I know a lot of SV players love to talk about how it’s a hybrid spec, yet by any point of reference, it isn’t. It’s designed to be a melee spec, it’s built around the concept of being a damage dealer, and in order to deal the most damage, you need to be in melee range. Just because you can use some of its abilities from afar, it doesn’t make it a “hybrid”. And yes, like I’ve said myself in the past, every single spec in the game is a hybrid of sorts. But that’s not actually relevant to the argument as, due to it’s role as a damage dealer, you will perform worse in your given role, if you step out of melee range.

Again, can it not, at times, be favorable to do just that? Yes, ofc. But that ties into the percieved method of playing, rather than intent of design. It’s more about circumstance, as opposed to pure design. It’s reliant on specific scenarios to be true, and in such scenarios, damage isn’t necessarily the top priority.

May I remind you of the base argument, comparing the hunter specs, and how people say that MM and RSV were the same despite not actually sharing any abilities at all, at the time of removal. Just because they added a Focus-generating component to the ability, doesn’t in any way take from the fact that they copied Kill Command from BM, and gave it to MSV. Does it amount to the exact same gameplay, in an isolated form? No, but that’s beside the point, it was still taken from BM.

Spirit Bond, while it’s no longer a part of BM, it used to be, and they lifted it from that spec and instead gave it to MSV, so while it’s not a shared effect in a literal sense, it IS promoting the same fantasy as it did for BM. And in doing so, blurring the lines between the specs.

A partial one yes. Or if you wish, replace “partial” with “basic”. Either way, my point still stands. The blend of sub-fantasies/themes that now make for current SV, makes it not only less unique when compared to the rest of the class, but also when compared to all other damage dealing classes/specs in the game.

Yes, RSV shared the basic theme of ranged weapon-based combat with the other hunter specs, despite how it was only the most basic form, and did not include sharing any specific elements/abilities. But like you’ve seen yourself, that apparently was enough of an excuse to remove it. So how come such basic themes, when they make for other classes, are suddenly okey to keep? Again, MSV shares such basic themes with most damage dealing specs in the game.

Again, I’m not using this argument to justify the removal of one spec or the other. The people arguing against RSV are…

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638

MM and BM both use auto shot therefore they’re the same. /s

Ah yes. The essential ability that you don’t even see you have that is just there… Seriously, it’s more of a fluff passive than anything…

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Concept wise Hunters share with Warlocks, there was a pet focused spec, a DoT heavy spec, and a long wind up hard hitting spec.

If the design team could see this distinction between the Warlock spec then l should have been able to apply this same distinction to Hunters as well, and have three range specs with completely different play-styles without having to add a melee spec just to differentiate the specs.

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640

Don’t do that. Don’t turn to trolling like certain other players here…

Why did you do this? I didn’t say that. Why do you quote me and then rewrite what you quote?

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641

Agreed. But in short, they apparently could not. They didn’t even try…

642

something messed up in the quote ngl. (that was unintentional)

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643

Class Designer Adam Kugler and Senior Producer Travis M. Day.

Adam Kugler joined Blizzard Entertainment in 2012 as an FX artist for World of Warcraft before getting handed the reins to all the playable classes. It’s easy to see why – he professes his love for all things gaming and has plenty of insight to provide, no matter what title you bring up. Adam was also heavily involved in the development of Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft, owing to his past experience as a professional poker player. Ask him about the Coin if you ever get the chance.

Travis M. Day is a more recent employee, joining Blizzard only in 2015. He does, however, bring with him a wealth of experience, having worked at Activision, Electronic Arts, THQ, and even Cloud Imperium Games for the space-faring MMO Star Citizen. His current role has him scheduling, tasking, and coordinating the various design teams. He’s also a huge Warcraft fan and will readily dive into its lore.

Outlaw Rogue doing the half-pirate, half-swashbuckler like [Hollywood actor] Errol Flynn, a musketeer with guns and swords and stuff I think that’s really fun. I worked on the Roll the Bones visual which was this really crazy idea we had and it was just like, “I think I know how I can do this.” And then it just turned out to be what it is and “I think that’s cool?” (Laughs)

And then Survival Hunter…

It was another one that was missing its niche. It’s kind of like Marksman except more traps? Or different arrows? So it was kind of missing that “what is the core fantasy?”

Having it move into the melee space and actually return to its roots that was the vanilla Survival experience. You got your Raptor Strike and all that and having those come back and play a role, moving into melee, giving mobility like the Harpoon to draw you in – it’s like it finally gave them a unique identity. If this is the beast companion guy that you’ve always wanted to play then you’re going to have that role.

Generally those are the ones that probably got the most drastic changes but every single class – I think one of the things that’s fun to see is when you go into a five-man dungeon now and you can actually pretty readily, visually go: “Oh look the Rogue is doing his roll of the dice right now” or “Oh look the Paladin just threw his hammer.”

You get more flavor both visually and also as a player. That feeling of “What is that experience that I wanted?” and it delivers a little bit more for every class now.

I know that was long, but if you read how the designers back ground and main focus forward with classes was based off of visual excitement. They redesigned spec so they could be distinctive through visual abilities, and as long as it looked cool that was the focus. That would be why they could not distinctively tell the difference between hunter specs as they shot projectiles that all similar effects. They had little experience actually playing with each spec and picking up on the nuances of each.

This would also why Legion SV was such a mess of abilities as they just threw in every ability that would look thrilling to bring in players than to actually test if the actual flow of SV play-style was smooth.

Blizzard essential gave over class design to Michael Bay who then in-turned decided that classes need to have more explosion than a good story.

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644

Seems like a fair assessment indeed.

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645

It’s different and I like that, that’s how it makes it fun. :cowboy_hat_face: :sunglasses:

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646

I don’t think this was an accurate assessment on Blizzard’s part. Before legion, surv was NEVER a melee spec. The melee abilities in the surv talent tree were mainly focused on ways to get mobs/players out of melee range, as the dead-zone was still around until MoP. Wing Clip, Counterattack, Wyvern Sting, etc… All these slowed/rooted/sleep the target so you could get away and keep shooting. The main purpose of the actual damaging melee abilities was just for those cases when you were dead-zone locked and literally couldn’t do anything else besides melee. Basically just basic attacks that said “here’s something to press when you’re getting tunneled by melee.” From MoP to WoD, the melee abilities really went away because you could use all your shots from melee anyways.

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647

The core design of Hunters was pets and tracking. All hunter still have them.

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Ranged weapons were the most central and iconic part.

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I love when you link this. Why don’t you read out loud the Common and Advanced Weapon Skills for all of us. Make a video of yourself reading it so we can all see when it sinks in.

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vanilla hunters were never meant to be only melee. wing clip - a slow, mongoose bite - only useable after you dodge, lacerate - literally removed

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651

Ironically the current iteration of SV has some ranged attacks… Vanilla hunters were never meant to be only ranged either. Funny how that works.

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How does “it is primarily a ranged attacker”, “the hunter relies on ranged power”, and an in-game implementation that includes and heavily depends on a ranged weapon appears to you as something adequately represented by a spec that has no ranged weapon and prefers to be in melee range in most situations?

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653

I love how you invent ways to keep complaining

654

Class is more than a single spec. It’s a combination of all of em.

655

a melee with some ranged attacks is a lot different than a ranged with some melee attacks.

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656

MSV was a change to the direction Hunters were in classic. You want to run up to enemies and run away only when you can not be in melee range. Maybe the class designers never read the manuals?

It kind of a idiom to call a spec that run towards danger instead away Survival.