I went and tested the changes and honestly I’m probably rerolling while I still have time. Numbers wise who knows, from my testing it seemed close but it feels terrible now. All the people saying to much going on in AOE I completely disagree it felt fine to me. Now on the ptr it feels brutally slow, completely killed the spec for me. I really wish they would figure this kind of crap out before launch instead of giving us one version of the spec and then entirely changing it only weeks later. Tuning I understand but these kind of game play/rotation complete overhauls should not be announced a few weeks into this…
1 Like
An ability on a 15 second cool down you still have to use intelligently to get the most out of? Sure they will.
Look, I don’t want to try and invalidate anyone’s opinion here, but what I am noticing is the people who know this spec inside and out, write guides, theorycraft and like, don’t have issues with these changes and in general like them. Myself included, although I’m not a guide writer or anything like that. I do like the changes and I think they are a big step in the right direction for end game content.
If you don’t think it is fun that is one thing. Making the argument the spec is performing worse with these changes is completely false. That is verifiable with the data being collected.
4 Likes
I can’t see anyway that the change to Butchery is a positive. We’ve lost our only AoE melee cleave. The increased cooldown makes Frenzy Strikes basically worthless, and the bleed damage doesn’t keep pace with the damage you’re losing from the loss of bombs from the change to FS.
Also, to all the guide writers and theory crafters who are going to White Knight the change… it also makes the spec feel less reactive and fun.
1 Like
it 100% does lol that bleed does insane damage
1 Like
The spec has been changed on a fundamental level since it’s inception more often than almost any other spec I can think of, so I’d beg to differ.
I mean…good lord…they literally just changed so much about the spec two weeks before TWW launch (in a good way) and are already changing it all up again, so I don’t know how you can realistically make that argument.
Better pray that something doesn’t happen that makes you miss some targets or it’s going to be a long time before it comes around again.
Also, using Misdirection on the tank and running around with Butchery to grab loose adds is a very valid strat, which this nerfs.
Also nerfs Symphonic Arsenal in the Sentinel tree by at least 80%, which everyone seems to be glossing over.
Shout out to Shadow getting its entire AoE kit changed two times pre dragonflight. plenty of specs get plenty of changes. this is not unique to SV at all.
oh gosh too bad that’s only unique to 15 second (hasted) butchery and doesn’t apply at all to 9 second (hasted) butchery or wildfire bomb 
2 Likes
We get it, you write a guide. You know better about why every change Blizz makes is magic and good. It’s all the rest of us, the trolls that simply come on to voice our feelings that are wrong. Goodness man. People can express their feelings about something without you stomping all over them.
The fact is, if you have to explain to everyone why the changes are good. They are not good changes. Good changes to a spec should feel good and work well. When the majority of people in a post are voicing their dislike of something, it stands to reason that it’s because it doesn’t feel good or fun.
Didn’t say this at all.
I said a 720% attack power bleed does, in fact, “keep pace” with the amount of bombs you’d be losing despite your claim.
The fact is, people make knee jerk reactions to patch notes every single time blizzard makes any changes at all without 1) playing it themselves 2) bothering to learn any sort of difference 3) simming it themselves and then 9 times out of 10 after the changes are implemented and things are in fact better they pretend they knew it all along
5 Likes
Depending if all targets are up for the full 12 seconds. If not, or if more adds come in to play, I’d be willing to wager that the difference in bombs would outweigh it.
If you’re going to say that you need to time it just right and on … then it would be better as a moderate to major cooldown ability as opposed to a 15 second c/d ability. That’s a relatively low c/d ability which means it’s meant to be used early and often, not planned out like choosing a college major.
Sims =/= equal true gameplay for the large majority of the playerbase.
2 Likes
and I suppose this doesn’t count for WFB’s DoT? 
It’s a hasted ability and cornered prey reduces the cooldown.
3 Likes
I’ve been using these forums since 2004 and not sure I’ve ever seen someone white knight as hard as you are.
2 Likes
not immediately freaking out about a change = white knight?
3 Likes
If you post publicly a statement that is factually incorrect and someone corrects you I wouldn’t really calling it stomping lol
The average forum poster lacks critical thinking and all they are doing is pointing out why they have those misconceptions. Look at pandapassion a perfect example been using the forums since 2004 apparently and are still clueless.
I’d argue that if your points can be factually proven incorrect then it doesn’t stand to reason but if you want to comment purely on subjective things like fun I think you’d see far less pushback.
3 Likes
Numerous people have listed completely legitimate concerns and complaints, yet you’ve made excuses and deflected every single one of them, and now you’re completely deflecting and misrepresenting when called out on it.
I’m actually tired of wasting an abundance of my time on you.
1 Like
And numerous people have explained why the changes aren’t nearly as bad as other people think it will be. What’s your point?
If you don’t like having discussions or get upset when people disagree with you, don’t post on a public forum?
3 Likes
I find it rather funny you say this, since every post I’ve seen of yours from Beta through now has just been telling people why they don’t know how to play and how Blizzard’s changes are all wonderful. You literally lurk, waiting for people to post their subjective feedback and then white knight about how they’re wrong and Blizz is right. If you get that upset when people disagree with how you feel, don’t post on a public forum?
3 Likes
having AoE abilities that hit harder but have a cooldown just seems to be a thing blizz is doing lately. it’s not SV-specific and it’s probably not the end of the world. frost DK’s frostscythe works this way (had its damage buffed and a cooldown added in TWW pre-patch), as does spriest’s shadow crash (think maybe that one always had a cooldown)
with our current setup, i feel like i barely get the chance to use butchery. between explosive shot, bombs, flanking strike, and kill command, i just don’t seem to find a lot of opportunities to fit a butchery in. it’s often sitting at 2 or 3 stacks. and i’m not even running merciless blows!
buffing butchery’s damage in return for reducing its potential frequency (and adding a bleed to it to play into some of our other talents) sounds like a win to me. we have multiple other short-cooldown AoE abilities, so i doubt we’re gonna be sitting there doing no AoE while everyone else blasts, or something
6 Likes
The title of this thread is literally asking is sv aoe gutted and numerically this is objectively wrong as it currently stands. If people want to comment on fun factor be my guest but claims that are easily refuted are going to be pointed out as stupid in any large public discussion.
3 Likes
you mean like that time someone insisted VH cleaves through kill cleave and it doesn’t, because it’s a separate damage event? when people confidently say objectively wrong things they should be prepared for others to correct them.
You’re delusional lol. It’s a public forum, I view it when I like to.
2 Likes