Don’t listen to the haters who jump on every chance to bash MSV.
It has its issues but It’s fun and thematically cool af.
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Depends on what you determine as fun. I for one don’t enjoy endgame PvE but I do enjoy PvP and MSV is enjoyable in that regard.
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You just couldn’t resist! Troll
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Are we talking Pvp or Pve?
Cause even for Pvp since raptor strike is stronger than Mongoose bite baseline, you can weave combat range easier and burst harder with Raptor strike, Mongoose bite would require consistent uptime to get fury to 5 stacks plus enough focus and remaining time on the window to get off 3-4 full stack mongoose bites to be worth it damage wise.
In pve, if its a static single target fight then perhaps with good play you will be on par with tip and def as haste levels increase it will pull ahead but in this tier its unlikely
MSV is fine in PVE. It’s as enjoyable as any other melee. Red bomb comes up, time your window for KC. Green comes up, verify that your Serpent Sting needs refreshed…Blue, bleed em up with 3 raptors. It’s faster than Unholy DK in rotation, but not as busy as enhancement shaman. The thematic flair is there as stated previous. DPS is fine, and on the content I do, I’m always in the top 3. It’s how you play the class, as I can out DPS people who just strolled in on the FOTM or don’t pay attention to procs.
Sometimes, on fights, I switch to BM. Sometimes, I’m MSV. The hunter is about adaptability and I play in the style I like according to the fight. Need someone to kick back and grab anima or run mechanics? I’m your gal. Is the raid range heavy and you need someone up close? I got that too…and I can do it within DPS numbers needed.
Leech could be tuned a bit, but we have tools like FD, Camo, Disengage and turtle. The class just need one more thing to really make it shine.
You want someone to grind M+ all day, everyday… I’m not that person regardless of the class. 
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I’m talking about pvp from experience as someone that routinely swaps back and forth between both talents and playstyles.
They’re pretty much on par with each other, ones just bigger and more difficult to use burst windows versus the others higher sustained.
One talent re-entering the spotlight doesn’t make another useless. It’s situational.
I’m not saying its useless I’m saying its not worth taking at this time in this tier because of how much it takes to make it work just to be on par. Which is a bit odd for Mongoose bite since, given the effort involved, it should be considerably stronger than tip.
Depending on the changes for 9.1, i can see Mongoose bite pulling ahead to be the solid single target go too, of course for multi target situations, Tip will prob still be stronger as its easier to weave in while using carve on cd.
I’m saying as someone that routinely swaps back and forth and likes both talents that there are still times you want to run mongoose, like when you’re building a team composition around a particular burst window that gives mongoose time to ramp up.
This isn’t new. Tip was viable all of BFA when people were insisting you “had to” play goose, too. They’ve never been THAT far apart if you properly compensate your playstyle and actually plan around your build.
given the effort involved, it should be considerably stronger than tip
what effort? The goose build is more spammy than tip except in periods like right now where haste is so low that you have to stack it into death chakram to optimize the burst window.
Tip weaving has always been more engaging; and more susceptible to pet pathing issues because of increased value of kill command in the weave.
I’ll add this to the list of situations that definitely exist.
I find the rotation to be very rhythmic and pleasing. I’m casual here, so really all I care about is the feel, not the numbers. Playing with thrill of the hunt and not chimaera shot focuses the game play around stacking crit bonus from thrill of the hunt and managing barbed shots so that you always have bonus crit but also as much uptime in beast wrath as possible. Playing with killer instinct and killer cobra is fun cause there are always adds at less than .35 health or spirit beast gives you just enough bonus haste to spice things up. The rotation is very simple at surface level but it seems to me to have a high skill cap. In general, the trail blazer talent with a cunning pet and aspect of the beast means you are playing with a passive 42% movement speed bonus. If you don’t enjoy running around looking for exotic pets, the class may not be as fun tho, I think enjoying that leads to the greatest enjoyment of bm.
I love it for bg’s, it’s kinda a weird class, people call it the melee hunter but it’s really not. You have to kite pretty much all plate classes, but you have a ton of tools to do so, and then you melee casters. Vipers venom is meant to go with a build that focuses on aspect of the eagle kiting, I think. In my option it’s a true hybrid class. I think the call of the wild legendary is fundamental to the spec, but have not got it yet so I really don’t know. I haven’t done mythics on mine, but I enjoy it in heroics, terms of engagement, butchery, flanking strike, chakras with the necrolord death chakras ability is one of many ways to go, that build focuses on having focus to use butchery, there is a legendary that boost butchery damage. Terms of engagement in Torghast is great. If those two are your focus, I think it’s a great choice. For more general play, I think bm feels great.
The problem with TotH is that it’s just another effect to Barbed Shot alongside Frenzy; there’s no extra involvement at all so the talent for the most part is “Spec this for extra passive damage”. It’s like Master Marksman in the Marksmanship talent.
Yet this doesn’t apply at all outside of PVE so it’s not really a true hybrid like Red Mage from FF14. Even when only considering PvP, Survival has to go into melee to do full damage while the other specs don’t. It’s still a weakness over the base class and the only reason it’s there is so Survival feels different. That’s tokenism and it’s a really bad foundation for a WoW spec. Specs are meant to build off the core class, not take things away just to be quirky/different. It’s like taking Stealth away from a Rogue spec.
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I’m not trying to be argumentative, I’m just sharing what I enjoy about bm. Those are just my two cents.
Tbh op if you really want this style of play I recomend outlaw rogue. Better resource design in energy. You can build for pistol shots spec or more melee. Still have a grapple hook move. Will always have a lockpicker for random lockboxes you find on any character. Stealth is desired in M+ for some skips. The dps output is actually really good in aoe. More self healing with crimson vial. Arguably better defensive skills with feint, shadow cloak, and evasion/vanish vs just turtle and feign death.
Tip of the Spear is drastically less fun, though. SV’s rotation is wonderful with Mongoose Bite and Wildfire Infusion, but the rotation tanks without either. Both should be baseline.
Try it. You might like it. I think it’s ridiculously fun, just gotta ignore the haters.
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No offense…but someone who is only 10/10LFR has no business commenting what is “fine in pve”.
Survival tends to attract the kind of player that likes to talk about competitive matters without any experience in competitive content. There are exceptions like the handful of Survival players pushing mythic or gladiator but it seems especially common for Survival discussions. I saw a video recently on youtube trying to talk about how great Survival is in PvP and the narrator was playing low level battlegrounds without any addons, macros, or even nameplates and lost half the fights he got into, meanwhile listing a bunch of “advantages” of SV that the other Hunter specs could do just as well if not better.
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Does it play like an outllaw rogue? Other than not being dual wield? It felt like an outlaw rogue with a 2h weapon to me.
Here’s the thing - I loved ranged survival - but I can admit melee survival is a fun spec to play.
Here’s another thing - it may be low on the overall damage meters but I play it exactly like I play my BM hunter…I jump in to any / every encounter face first and figure out if I should have done it after.
PS - there might not be a more satisfying button press in the game than throwing bombs into peoples faces point blank.
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