Haven’t play my rogue since I got KSH in S3. I got nothing better to do so decide to play my outlaw rogue for fun. I forgot how fun it was for casual content (LFR and low m+) but looking at the TWW beta thread it seems they are a really bad spot?
Fun is subjective but losing Acro is not fun. The CP generation with TWW compared to DF prepatch is a lot slower . Fan the Hammer used to provide more Cps but ate some nerfs throughout DF, MFD was a talent choice and Dreadblades was also a talent choice but both were removed. The CPs on demand from AR isn’t an adequate replacement because AR requires certain conditions to use so you don’t cap energy.
In short CP generation isn’t as good as it used to be and the spec use to have energy as a fall back to fill globals. Without Seal Fate which was also lost and Sinister Strike second strike chance being low the spec is way too slow.
Assassination has DoTs and Envenom windows. Sub pools energy for Shadow Dance Windows.
But Outlaw waiting for energy and CPs is bad because it is designed around cool down reduction.
Only thing keeping Outlaw fun/playable is Fan the Hammer and Count the Odds talents. Loaded Dice should have been baseline a long time ago to make RTB work properly in conjunction with Count the Odds.
4 Likes
Outlaw is a failed experiment.
They need to bring back Combat…/smh
15 Likes
I have said as much when they stripped everything that made Outlaw unique.
Outlaw used to have a a ranged stun that did damage, used to have extra range from run throughs, acrobatic strikes, a grapple that used to work on uneven terrain and three dimensions. etc.
Current Outlaw in TWW is like an inferior version of Outlaw, Combat and Sub. It is a mish mash of all three concepts but it doesn’t excel in anyway which makes it feel substandard.
Right now the spec lives or dies with HO build variations but that could change.
3 Likes
SO I guess I should stick to a pally…
2 Likes
Pallies are in pretty good shape.
The problem is that the future for Rogue is uncertain right now.
1 Like
I still remember the meta use to be rouge,mage,spirest. Now is mage, spriest or warlock and aug evoker. Game is really going towards range meta for M+ in TWW with the removal of all melee losing there their extra melee range talents…
Yes but the non mensa members at Nu BliZzard doesn’t understand what they are doing because they do not play the game…it is so obvious…painfully obvious.
5 Likes
Pretty sad when you look at all the top m+ teams, and they are running completely identical comps.
Bring the player not the class… unless the player doesn’t play aug, mage, spriest, resto druid, or dh tank.
4 Likes
I don’t think thats ever going to happen. In DF beta you could make a “combat” build. That meaning, a build ignoring Pistol Shot and Roll the Bones in favor of some very hard hitting Sinister Strikes and Dispatches.
Blizzard killed the build by removing or nerfing every talent associated with it a few weeks before launch. This build wasn’t even as good as the Ambush/Fan the Hammer build, but they still went out of their way to make sure you couldn’t play like old combat.
4 Likes
The non RTB build was fun to be honest. But the worst part is that they killed other builds and it is down to really HO builds or variations.
2 Likes
Outlaw works well enough. Hero talents are powerful & demand playstyles. Rouge specs are skill-capped as far as ability expression. streamlined, per se. Personally, I play Trickster Outlaw S2 TWW. I have great win rate on Epic Alterac Valley spinning tower flags against 2-3 opponents at a time. Trickster Distract/CloudCover has saved my life when I’m out of defensive cds. Additional 10% damage reduction from fazed targets. Supercharging combopoints counts as 3 for 1 point with BTE so i dont full spend BTE & receive Ace up your sleeve after supercharging a BTE. I (no gems, full epic) 1.3M BetweenTheEye, from stealth, on pvp dummy Dornogal.
After the nerfs you are the first person I have seen that says Outlaw works well enough.
Technically tanks work well enough too in PVP.
So what part are we talking subjective and what part are we talking about objective feedback?
You have the floor.
The class is awaiting a proper response.
4 Likes
Too good a shape honestly. It’s wild having an auto massive heal when you get low, able to BOP or LoH, then instantly divine shield negating forbearance, and constantly able to self heal pretty well with WoG, and what seems like a good burst chunk every Ashes if you talent for it to activate Wrath/Crusade. and while being able to dish out most of your damage from 25 yards away
2 Likes
Quick damage burst?.. I have been satisfied with the burst from Ghostly Strike + Killing Spree on a stunned single target.
Full damage burst?.. Ghostly Strike on a Fazed target with 5+ stacks of Flawless Form is the prerogative of Trickster Outlaw. That’s the perfect damage window. Vanish + Between the Eyes during that window. 4 strikes of Unseen Blade will unlock this window Otherwise, Vanish is to disengage
Sleight Of Hand + 4-set is 60% increased chance of additional matches? Yes, Count the Odds is selected as well.
Talents that are great:
PVP: Smoke Bomb, Preemptive Maneuver, Dismantle.
Outlaw: Greenskin’s Wickers, Dirty Tricks, Combat Potency, Fatal Flourish, Ruthlessness. Take em’ by surprise.
I’m rarely energy starved. I WILL spend a 2-3 combo point, supercharged, Between The Eyes finisher if I’m energy starved. That’s like 4 free combo points.
Cloud Cover + Blade Flurry in team engagements for incoming damage reduction. Or killing spree the group to apply Fazed.
1 Like
Those are fair points.
I do agree that the burst is good with GS + Kspree. Especially with supercharged CP if talented.
Buffed slight of hand plus 4 set does help for opportunities. Problem is that it is going away next season.
SB, PM, Dis are the staples for all three Rogue specs but Outlaw PVP talents are all underpowered at the moment. Drink Up Me Hearties no longer unstealths when healing friendly targets so that is a plus.
GSW is solid now that Pistol Shot is buffed in PVP but I still wouldn’t say it is great. DT is a bonus but not really great. CP and/or FF are mandatory for the spec to function any form of content really and not exclusive to a PVP environment. Ruthlessness helps with CP generation but with HO builds it isn’t mandatory as you are building CPs so quickly but energy from Ambush dumps is your limiting factor.
If you are efficient with CP usage you shouldn’t be energy starved so supercharger works exactly like how ER use to work for CP economy. Downside is you do that you can not use supercharger for larger damage so it is an opportunity cost.
Unfortunately the CDR nerf really grinded the spec to a halt and it shows in all PVP brackets in 2v2, 3v3, BGB, and RB.
Outlaw is nearly dead last in nearly all brackets.
Reverting the CDR nerf in PVP is a must as the 4 piece is going away next season and the only reason to justify that nerf in the firt place.
Outlaw needs a lot of help in PVP because it needs more damage overall.
1 Like
So, yes, Rouge IS bad in TWW but not because it’s bad. Coupled with the lack of high-end representation, it seems worse than it is.
The class design in very, very satisfying.