As mentioned here, one of the difficult things about ret is the amount of support they provide. People measure a dps class by looking at meters. But ret does so much more, its a solid second healer, a solid CCer, a solid off-tank, and support defense. All of those things are difficult to quantify in meters, but are essential to making a run go smoothly.
Yes, bad rets plague the class. But behind the brain-dead rotation, and mobility issues, Ret is actually pretty difficult to master.
Not to give away all our secrets and tell you how to beat us, but youâre wrong. Weâre not âGods,â we just have to be countered and if people donât know that weâll trample you. If you know how to counter us though, weâre fish in a barrel.
Rarely see a ret full heal in a bubble, they usually use it to break a stun w/ temp immunity or to stop a burst early, and full healing as a ret is hard because mana. Only get bubble for a couple secs anyway as disc priests are everywhere and everyone knows to mass dispel now.
BOP lets through all magic so 70% of classes still have a way to hit us and we are still interruptible through itâs duration, so no healing. At most itâs a 10 sec melee stop-gap but itâs also dispelled.
Lay on Hands is the only thing you got right but at the least itâs a 7 min CD so you only see it once per BG, itâs so singular itâs practically irrelevant. Everyone has a major heal now anyway, even hunters, and if itâs not enough you can easily stack up on BG potions with 50% insta health for dirt cheap and less CD.
Our heals are terrible, Flash of Light is a HUGE mana drain (1/4 of total mana for ~20k hp) and not enough health to compensate for the pause in combat, and because itâs a cast itâs interruptible. So good luck using it w/o a bubble.
The only thing almost decent is WoG and for some unknown reason it only 2 charges each on a 1 min CD, costs mana, AND needs 3 of our 5 holy power spenders.
The only way youâre guaranteeing getting soloâd by a ret paladin rn is due to an experience gap. As I stated, basically any class that has a slow is more than capable of kiting us to the edge of oblivion.
Iâm not saying that Ret is bad, itâs really engaging class to play in PvP. Against other melee classes youâll find you compete well. Itâs also a great class to introduce you to the mechanics of the game and how to utilize your class and specs full tool belt. And yes, we do have some of the best burst around once you get your stats right, but I donât think take away should be our ability to actually hit things. Itâs not fun gameplay. This is easily fixable too, with a charge type move like everybody else. It balances blinky/teleporty/force-pushy nature of wizards and other quick ranged.
(It would also mean I TOO have a counter for the non-stop shaman, druid, and hunter BS flag bridge force-pushes on EoS.)
If youâre talking PvP, show us your retâs arena ratings.
I wasnât. I was talking strictly PvE. I thought that was pretty obvious considering I talked about how DPS are usually measured in Damage meters and donât take ^^^ what you quoted into account.
Context⌠is important, instead of randomly quoting and I donât know⌠I guess *attempt to throw shade on my rating? smhâŚ
I havenât done rated pvp on my pally for a long time. Mobility for one, but almost because my past arena was on Holy. Not sure what your attitude is about.
In pvp they lack mobility but have very good burst and sustained damage. So they are kinda meh due to the lack of mobility and their only mobility having to freedom AND horsey in one go.
In pve they seem pretty meh due to their lack of aoe, but meh idk I dont pve much. Just what it seems like to me.
So I wouldent say they are bad from a viability standpoint per say, just kinda meh nit great but not bad either.
Oh, OK, so casual PvE. Got it, and sorry for assuming.
TBH my attitude is irritation at the OP and others like him because he essentially implies most rets are just âbad at the specâ even though it should be obvious there are design problems that many paladins - of all specs - take issue with. All he has to do is read other threads. Also, IF he was asking about PvE only, heâs a dolt. Any class/spec can do perfectly fine in PvE given a non-hardcore setting. If heâs asking PvP, again, all he has to do is read the forums and/or check out some arena retsâ ratings and videos.
Iâve played a ret pally since classic both for raiding and PvP, if ret is played right they can be up there with other hybrid/support builds people need to understand that we are not a pure DPs class.
There are no âsupport classesâ in this game, nor are there any âtaxesâ for being a hybrid. (the devs have said as much.) Ret is DPS. The end.
Are these the same devs that loved the azerite system they punished us with?
sup¡port
/sÉËpĂ´rt/
bear all or part of the weight of; hold up
Next time you are about to be 1 shot ill hold onto my non support abilitiesâŚ
Not true. You canât win a 1v1 vs any equally (or even less skilled) player of the following specs:
Fire mage
Frost Mage
Arcane Mage
Elemental
Destro
DH
UH DK
WW
Survival
This isnât WoD or Legion. Ret is not a god in 1v1âs anymore, and BGâs can be pretty miserable if itâs ranged dps heavy as you waddle around getting booty blasted.
You may have played a ret pally in classic (as did I) but you dang sure didnât raid as ret. I got laughed out the door Everytime I tried. I had to heal. It wasnât until bc that I got to actually raid as ret.
Never use these forums as a measure of anything related to WoW. 99% of the people here are here to whine. Ret is one of the better melee right now for PvE, and has higher representation above 2k than half the melee specs in Arena.
Thatâs pretty much false information lol.
As of April 10th ret is about 3% xD
As for PvE they are alright I wouldnât call them âone of the better meleeâ. Raid atm is more about the player than the class/spec mostly.
Numbers aside, the rotation is just trash. Very slow compared to previous expansions and we seem to get gutted more and more each expansion. Another issue is being good inside Wings but not so much outside making them more CD dependent. And someone else mentioned above - the Retribution passive just needs to go.
Itâs been that way since cata. I donât see that changing anytime soon as much as I would love more sustain over burst. If they want us to have great burst thatâs fine but make it flow better. Hammer of reckoning is a great example. Imagine something like that on a 30 second cd with a 6-8 second duration. Having shorter burst windows but having more of them is better then every 2 min.
Ret paladin actually needs major nerfs to their insane damage. Biggest problem is wings being too short of a cooldown, and wake of ashes.
Iâd ideally like to see wings on a 5 minute cooldown, and wake of ashes removed.
Wake does no dmg in pvp⌠Stop trolling battlezone
bro have you ever used word of glory outside of PVP?
if you only removed the cooldown you could literally no heal a +15 dungeon. I get invited to +16 keys as a non meta class because of word of glory alone if itâs a healerâs key usually. it trivializes a lot of nasty pulls and with wings up on a crit itâs basically three LoHâs going out at once. managed to kill zul on kings rest on a 15 fortified without lust thanks to word of glory. i just hate how pathetic it is in PVP in comparison.
honestly though i wish they would remove the cooldown just to see what kind of silliness would happen. would love to no heal even just a +10 and see how much damage i could still do. probably more than an rdruid iâm pretty sure.
If Ret is âDPS, the endâ , explain this. Word of GloryâŚa Ret talent, has 2 charges, 1 min Cooldown, requires 3 Holy Power. Heals the 2 lowest HP players near you, you are included if youâre one of the lowest 2. A normal cast of this pars pretty close to a critical heal of Holy Light in our Holy spec, our healing spec, our highest heal we have(aside from Lay on Hands obviously). And when it crits, easily weâll over 100k Crit pretty much guaranteed(thatâs WITHOUT any Intellect buffing spell power), Holy Light doesnât do that in our healing spec. If Ret isnât support, why do we have a bigger heal in this spec than our healing spec? For 2 players might I add. And in PVP this specific talent is nerfed by what, like 40% I think? Almost useless in PVP for our own personal survivability, weâre supports.
Iâm not sure if youâre referring to PVP or PVE here, but Iâm sorry I have to disagree. When it comes to PVE content our value is only visible within our CD window. If Blizz were to extend our Avenging Wrath CD to 5 minutes, it would be disastrous to our damage. And Wake of Ashes REMOVED??? /nearly faints
If you are referring to PVP content (and lord help us if you arenât), then other solutions need to be found. Do not punish the PVE ret pallies for PVPâs sake!