Just asking since I’m curious, during classic it worked but era broke it. Has it been fixed yet to not lose charges randomly?
Works fine; exactly like vanilla 1.12
Rules are as follows.
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If you activate auto and then do not hit and cancel auto you lost your stack.
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You cannot weapon swap or you drop stack.
Some things are slightly off because of the elimination of batching; such as sit stand macro works but has to be executed watching enemy auto timer right before they hit. Not really needed tho.
HoJ (classic era unique bug) is fixed so dont plan on that.
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Last I had heard, in era mounting removed stacks, changing targets removed stacks. Just a lot of things broke it. Glad to hear it’s fixed
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Changing targets while you have auto attack “on” will drop them, but so long as you don’t have auto “on” you can swap targets as much as you like. I use HoJ, healing, etc, while in WSG and healing my bros, and after I got a nice stack and some poor fool is near by or being stubborn and does not want to die; Just global them.
Not sure about the mounting because I have borrowed a tactic from my friend Xfour and that is to ride around WSG and collect melee crits and then zug off into the sunset to global the EFC. Ill have to test mounting after stacks, but I think (not sure) that they do stick assuming you do not change weapons… Weapon swaps do drop stacks tho.
I hate Ret-Reck players because they usually just bot HKs in mid but I appreciate Xfour’s hustle anytime.
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Indeed, he’s a good dude too. He also like I do mutli-class plays and actually plays “paladin” rather than any specific pretend crap.
The real power of the class is the utility spells that enable the pure DPS to do their job. Being Reck is basically a deterrent to enemy melee so that you can cast. It’s also very strong for slappin a healer or EFC.
Reck also allows you to if needed fill in as burst damage if your team is short that role. The biggest problem with most paladins is that they try to be warriors when they simply are not and waste freedom selfishly on themselves, never use cleanse, BoP or Sac and then QQ when you don’t peel them and cry that they don’t have any one healing them.
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Multi-classing is good for the soul. If you know someone’s class better than them you can easily win a fight even in a disadvantaged match up.
There’s some really good paladins on Era that push the envelope for playing retri. Especially those who know how to properly gear swap. I still wouldn’t classify it as premade quality but the playstyle works more than enough for pug BGs, especially if you’re heavily geared in AQ/Naxx patch. Before that I don’t think it’s worth while.
Yeah Being short of R14 or T2.5 is rough for playing Reck / Ret. Really the onlyproblem with the Ret / Reck specks are that you need a decent 2 hander and you also need a good healing weapon / healing gear also. X4 has basically 2 sets of gear for PVP that he gear swaps (I do very similar) Also Thatone does also very similar, both X4 and Thatone have a lot better gear than I do; eventually Ill raid on this guy (healing) and get some T3 for exactly that use. Being able to swap sets and even simply weapon swapping is so strong. Paladins who do not weapon swap for different situations are just jerks because they are holding their team back.
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My problem with reck ret is just no Spiritual Focus, and I find having to use Concen Aura to heal to be cumbersome.
If a hunter pet can completely stop you from healing someone or yourself then the spec is cooked. I see it more like PoM Pyro and that it’s a gimmicky more fast and loose spec.
Shockadin is very underrated in vanilla imo. Holy Shock into Judgement of Command can do 2k damage easily in intermediate gear. If you’re already setting up Fear → Trinket → HoJ on a druid then it’s handy to have in your pocket.
I haven’t played paladin since Light’s Hope though so I’m out of the loop on all the scaling and proc rates.
another pala I play with plays Holy reck and its absolutely disgusting, This is what “Thatone” also plays, so that’s 2 palas I play with who play that spec. they have both spiritual focus and cons aura with talents too! I have cons aura normally on tho; its so good! I also spec Kings and normally play with others be that other paladins or some priests and mages so I have enough caster support that the spec I play works for me, but its a team play spec vs a solo play speck like Deep Ret (repentance). IMO Holy Reck is probly the best spec, just that I have not played it in a long time.
Shock is insane, just I don’t have enough spell power do really play that… R14 does not offer me any spell damage weapons that I can equip, and the R13 set is ok but not T2, so there is that. In reality at only 200+ damage I am 250 short of a real shock pala, tho I can throw decent heals when I swap weapons.
When I am forced sword and board I actually swap to hand of edward the odd at times if its rogues because then I can use the reck procs to RNG proc the weapon to then instant cast my heals. Its very effective. Also occasionally use skull flame shield because it scales with spell power so the life drain proc can be very useful, but only good vs hunter pets, rogues and feral and the rare fury warrior.
Yeah you have to manage the aura swaps but in general you can heal almost as good as holy in pvp with zero points in holy tree.
Last I was spamming ret pvp I came to really enjoy spending most my time in full T3 + 2 hander. That way I can basically heal forever and not go oom, have decent size heals, but also get stacks.
Then when 4 stacks and there is an enemy that pickup flag. Just swap the gear to full zug ret gear (like lionheart, ghoulskin tunic, legs of apocalypse) and go help O kill the EFC. The burst is at least 3-4k on bis geared players.
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Speak of the devil lol!
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Is that really how it worked back in vanilla?
I know reckoning got nerfed / buggy a few times, presumably because Devs responded to players complaining about reckoning being OP, then the other rules started applying, having to turn off auto attack because the stacks disappear if target is outside of melee range, etc.
I still wouldn’t classify it as premade quality but the playstyle works more than enough for pug BGs, especially if you’re heavily geared in AQ/Naxx patch. Before that I don’t think it’s worth while.
Generally I may agree with you, but I’d also say retribution paladins tend to lack competent, skilled players, which is not helped by how gear dependent they are, and then ultimately people tend to be META sheep so they don’t know enough and just assume Ret is a bad pick for competitive play and premades which I’ve always disagreed with.
Still, I agree with some of your points, so much so that I think people often tend to sleep on the other damage ret specs, (deep ret, 2h holy shock ret) in favor of reckoning and ignore its weaknesses, but that’s also why the experience and flexibility of ret is awesome. Reckoning definitely has strong points, (like off-healer and vs. melee) but when it can be reduced to a subpar off-healer because no one attacks it and it can’t build stacks and has no extra damage modifiers that holy shock or ret do, then you can spec into those specs instead.
Ret is a great support pick, helps offense & defense and it’s flexible in terms of applying heavy pressure to enemy teams to free up the load on both healers & offense, that’s something a holy pally simply cannot do, a holy pally being in someone’s face applies very little pressure, appropriately.
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I see it the complete opposite. Ret-Reck feels like a solo WPvP/duel spec, and Deep Ret feels like the utility gear swapping team spec. Deep Ret allows you to weapon swap more often to heal and comes with the coolest CC in the game.
I’m going to be honest I have an irrational hatred for Reckoning but I do respect Holy-Reck players because it’s probably the best if not one of the best healing PvP specs for pally.
Once you get a really good healing 1h and shield and ZHC it changes your off healing so much. 5 minute Blessing of Light keybind is also something very under utilized. It’s incredible strong against rogues when playing Deep Retri. Can basically reset your HP every fifteen seconds if you space HoJ, Rep, and grenade.
Did you play with the same name on Light’s Hope? Your name is very familiar. My paladin’s name was Kinsman.
Yeah I agree, there are plenty of moments to use the extra +healing from swapping to healing weapon + shield. But often in wsg it isn’t really about the size of your heals, more so healing without getting silenced, casting freedom, sac, bop, etc and for the first fight using the BWL haste trinket + bubble to heal without getting CS’d can be done in any spec.
As ret reck it is always the balance of swapping and losing stacks / ability to get stacks versus to bonus healing / survival you get from 1h + shield.
In a normal wsg pug I’ll prob swap back and forth at least 50 times, but as soon as I have 3+ stacks I am much more careful about doing so.
I would say when playing premade vs premade, there is almost no reason to go any spec that isn’t holy unless your team really is playing around it. One hard part of playing ret is that others have to understand the strength / weaknesses and adjust their playstyle for everything to stay optimal.
But overall I think people should prob get a few hundred or even thousand hours of holy pvp before they go ret in vanilla. Or else they are likely to just because useless drains on the team.
Deciding when to heal and when to zug as ret requires a lot of experience in both playstyles.
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Yeah there are a ton of bad paladins, but I think its also safe to say there are just a ton of bad players and that paladin is also gear dependent and less effective especially if played badly unlike say Mage where if you cast a frost bolt is just does a ton of damage.
That is in a way a double whammy VS the class because it makes the less familiar think the class is in full bad outside of a pure healing role when you and I know this is not true.
Indeed, and the only way you can really get any pressure with Shockadin is to burn mana… and sure this is great in 1v1 VS melee who cant heal; its sorta crap in big group play where you will go oom very fast doing so. Contrast this to Reck where you can indeed put down some crazy burst and use your mana for things that count like freedoms for the FC, your warrior buddies and BoP for your caster buddies and healers.
Also being basically immune to sheep, blind, seduce, freezing trap (break on damage CC) is crazy strong.
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Did you play with the same name on Light’s Hope? Your name is very familiar. My paladin’s name was Kinsman.
I did not, but I used to play as the original Nyhver & Nurza on Feenix as ret paladins and had known pvp videos, I’ve had a lot of people take my name on other servers & pservers before like retro wow, so it doesn’t surprise me. It is flattering, so that’s cool, in fact I think I’ve had a couple before ask me that same question about nostalrius and light’s hope
I would say when playing premade vs premade, there is almost no reason to go any spec that isn’t holy unless your team really is playing around it. One hard part of playing ret is that others have to understand the strength / weaknesses and adjust their playstyle for everything to stay optimal.
I can sorta see this but I guess it just differs a lot. Around AQ+, (and naxx) ret can have issues scaling up compared to a holy t3 paladin in group play, naturally, but holy paladin tends to run into issues in pvp like curse of tongues and having hard casts outside of a long cd holy shock and DS, I’ve heard both what you say, and can see situationally holy paladin is top tier or good, and also from other people where they fight maybe ‘the wrong’ horde premade and holy pallies are useless due to what holy pallies bring and horde zerging them down with MS. Similarly, we had some ‘top tier prems’ in NA years ago that got crushed on the PTR because they were doing general strat pvp meta stuff and they’d just get memed on by the south koreans that had some pom pyro mages IIRC.
That is in a way a double whammy VS the class because it makes the less familiar think the class is in full bad outside of a pure healing role when you and I know this is not true.
Very true. It’s so much easier to be effective at skill floor with something like mage or rogue compared to ret pally. That’s one thing I like about 2h holy shock ret, too, you get similar dmg to ret except it solves one of the issues of ‘paladins have no instant attacks’ with holy shock, you still get the 2h SoC proc damage as 2h holy shock ret. But, yeah- holy shock definitely needed some tweaking, too long a cd and high mana for the dmg & healing it does, on top of lacking +spell hit.
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Pretty sure they changed it before P2 or sometime early into P2 2019…
yeah shock should have been something more similar to earth shock with 6 sec CD but bygones be bygones…
Also should have used melee hit like hammer of wrath.
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