compared to a frost DK or furry warrior is outlaw more complicated to play in raiding and pvp?
It’s harder to play in pvp in that it’s nowhere near as strong as either of those specs.
For single target outlaw is quite straight forward compared to playing it in m+. There’s a strict rotation priority to follow for ST, and the only times it gets a bit more difficult is during adrenaline rush when it speeds up a LOT, especially during hero as well where it just gets ridiculous.
For m+ you’ll probably get a bunch of replies saying “just hit blade flurry lolz”. To maximize dps is actually a lot more difficult than many specs though. Your rotation changes throughout a pull depending on procs and traits, and you always need to be thinking ahead in terms of blade flurry use. Ending a pull on 0 charges is terrible for your dps if the last 10 secs of that pull was only 2 or 3 mobs, and your tank then charges into a 5 pull, for example.
Same with adrenaline rush usage. There’s only very specific times you want to hold it, usually you want to use on CD. But if you mess this up, it can cost big. It also takes time to get to know when it will be up again, as its CD depends on combo point usage, so sometimes it can be up almost straight after its ended (depending on rolls and pull size), and other times you won’t have it for a minute or so.
And then there’s roll the bones. Knowing when to reroll or not (on AOE) has so many variables that it really is just an art. Certainly not something i’ve mastered!
So i’d definitely say it’s more difficult than fury, but can’t common on DK as it’s been too long since i’ve played one. I’d still be quite confident in saying “probably” though 
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Edit - if you just want to single target (raid) and pvp, just go assass. Strong at both, and still great in m+ if you didn’t want to play two specs.
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very informative thankyou! im not looking for fotm or anything like that. I just like more simple rotations so i can focus more on mechanics
One great thing Outlaw has going for it, while it may not be “simple” is melee range. Extra melee range + a couple of ranged abilities being part of your rotation is a real quality of life upgrade for a melee.
That fury is hard to beat ST though, atleast in dungeon specs.
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So true. That hit box range alone is why I don’t think I can ever play any other melee spec. I don’t know what I’ll do with myself if it’s not in Shadowlands.
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Outlaw is harder than fury and unholy, not sure about frost because lol frost. In terms of single target, assassin is much easier and pulls a lot better numbers, and the opposite is true when comparing aoe,which is the main reason I swapped from assassin to outlaw as I run way more keys than i pvp or raid. When I realized I could pull better numbers and do half the work, definitely had to make the switch.
Outlaw becomes substantially easier if you get weak auras for it to utilize your rtb. I usually roll once, then I’ll keep bte on cd while rolling till I get what I want then I’ll dispatch until I need to roll again. Once you get that part worked out its pretty easy, just resource management.
I hope it’s as easy as you say.
I’ve stubbornly clung to outlaw, even for raids, since I reactivated my account when BFA launched (I hadn’t played since 2008, when combat reigned supreme).
I’ve only tried assassination briefly. I have trouble keeping track of DoTs on multiple targets. I think I need some add ons to help with that. I’d definitely like to learn it, for the ST fights alone. Sub too. Especially with the planned reworks for Shadowlands. I’ve just always been a one-character one-spec kind of player who seeks to master one before moving to another, and I’ve never really felt like I’ve come close to mastering outlaw.
PvP: It’s not hard to play per say, however it is more challenging to win 1v1 compared to Sin or Sub.
I love it though, stupidly good mobility and it has more tools to get out of sticky situations than the other specs.
I’ve stubbornly stuck with it too for the entire BFA and I thoroughly enjoy it in non-rated PvP. It is a lot funner in battlegrounds than sin that is for sure.
I had a crack at arena with it in 8.1 and early 8.2 but it just doesn’t have the burst damage or healing reduction (mortal/ wound poison) to be viable. Those that have had some success with it in recent patches are relying on laser beam/iris burst to kill in arenas at higher level.
Well, when comparing against assassin in m+ situations, you basically have to start in stealth, garrote 2 targets, vanish, garrote 2 more targets, rupture a target, fan to spread poisons and garrote any other targets, pass rupture around, and keep track of those bleeds to make sure you have as many as possible (the energy regain is insane with a bunch of targets, that’s the good part). It’s super hectic.
Outlaw you just do your normal rotation and weave a blade flurry charge in there keeping as much uptime as possible. Pretty simple.
With the current system that is BFA where everything is RNG based, Outlaw is no exception. If you want the best trait for it (BOTE) you need to do some PVP for and it more PVP if you want to get it to rank 3. Once you do it’s very good and your damage is great. I do hate the current system though, getting new azerite gear, losing good stats for crappy ones but it’s a 15-20 + ilevel increase.
Here’s to hoping there’s a better system when in Shadowlands cause these trait things SUCK!!!
I find Sin an easier rotation on single target, mostly due to it being a lot slower paced so it’s easier to get right. The only complicated part at all is nailing your opener and vanishing to reapply shrouded suffocation empowered garrote at the 5 sec mark. A huge amount of your dps comes from that and your vendetta opener, so if you aren’t doing that right, the damage can suck.
For dungeons though, Sin is a lot more work. You have 3 or 4 diffetent openers depending on pack size. You have to track a ton of bleeds and poisons, your finishers can change between 3 different options depending on numerous factors such amount of bleeds out, amount of mobs in range, talents.
You can be screwed by not getting restealths between pulls. Using vanish as a dps cooldown removes an aggro wipe/defensive that sometimes makes you cry. Especially since tricks of the trade isn’t as effective on sin’s ramp up style.
It feels very rewarding though, I just wish there wasn’t so much spreading dots around. I love the whole idea of assassin, and I think i’d like it in pvp if I had time to do any. But in dungeons it is a “melee affliction lock” as some call it. It’s a big ask to track all of that and also do the usual melee mechanics. I think it would have to be significantly ahead of Outlaw to trigger any sort of meta change due to the input vs output. And as mentioned, the melee range on Outlaw REALLY makes it hard to go back to another melee spec.
In some ways I almost wish they’d remove acrobatic strikes, lol. It’s just so damned good it makes everything else seem painful.
I have only mained combat/outlaw since 2008. not sure why the pvp nerf bat hit us so hard, but it is what it is. I can tell you that it is the best of the 3 specs. I would like some changes, but it is what it is