Been thinking about this for a while and ever since I picked up Ret in Wrath I’ve loved using Divine Storm. The ability personifies Ret extremely well. Even now that its graphics have been severely downgraded, it’s still the rotational ability that I look forward to using the most. A fair number of Ret paladins that I’ve spoken to seem to echo this sentiment.
TV was added back in Cata when we got Holy Power (DS was not a spender then), along with the push for CC in that expansion’s dungeons. However, we’ve since moved far away from that design and dungeons have been spamfests for quite a few years so we don’t necessarily need a single target spender anymore.
I’ve also never found the ST/AOE distinction between TV/DS to be particularly interesting. I was happy that they stopped making us switch between CS and HotR in ST and AOE.
With that in mind and Shadowlands (and its redesigns) on the horizon, I’m wondering if it’s time to remove TV altogether. DS could deal TV damage to our main target and DS damage to others.
Since Exorcism will hopefully be making a return, it could also bolster our single target damage in TV’s place and perhaps even give us something to min/max if they give it back the DoT effect.
Either way, I don’t feel like we need TV anymore and its removal would make space for something better, more interesting, or simply more thematic.
I’m curious what others think of a change like this…
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In next expac, they are returning spell like consecration & Hammer of Wrath as Baseline. Currently we have Judgement+Crusader Strike+Blade of Justice. Together we will have FIVE Spell to push and if we include on proc Divine Storm, it will be SIX. It’s more of like Wolk Ret where all of the above spell were present. Either they will Remove TV completely and make us an AOE machine combining Consec & DS or They might give us another Single Target play style which revolve around TV. Don’t think they will Remove TV and Holy Power. But they might make it a powerful Talent which will be useful for Single Target Build.
I do think we should always have a single target spender. Sometimes aoe is unwise. I want TV to be flashier though. Why is blade of wrath so flashy anyway? And why did they replace exorcism with that mess and why is crusader strike basically an auto attack with a strangely flashy animation of its own? Paladins need to flash and sizzle. We’re wielding the Light in the most violent way possible. That needs to be apparent in the large flashes which is why we all love divine storm.
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No, Templar’s Verdict is Rets primary resource spender/finisher. Unless you’re suggesting Exorcism become the holy power spender. Essentially a 30yard Templar’s Verdict, yeah I could get behind that. I wouldn’t like lack of animation, but sometimes you have to go function over form.
They could always make Consecration into a Spender, one that last a certain amount depending on holy power spent. Maybe even have it follow you as a pulsing AoE. Almost like a cooler version of Inquisition or a replacement.
Like how it was with Final Verdict, at least for me, its been my favorite animation for it thus far.
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Making ds the main builder means they’ll nerf the damage done to non-targeted enemies. No way they would let us spam divine storm at templar’s verdict’s power in aoe.
And deleting TV to make divine storm keeping it’s current damage would be a huge nerf overall.
And I hope they bring back final verdict animation. It was beautiful. I hope we get final verdict back and empowered divine storm trait on different talent tier to synergize together.
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I agree with others that removing TV would be too much, but I do agree that AoE/cleave is a big part of the spec’s fun and I’m all for boosting it in any way possible. Be it animation, sounds or mechanics.
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Bring back the Ashbribger trait that lets divine storm double tap and travel. I want holy light radiating from my paladin.
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No I wasn’t trying to change Exorcism into a spender. As fun as that would be, I doubt they’d ever let us have a ranged nuke like that.
I didn’t say anything like that. It would only deal TV damage to the main target, the secondary targets would be taking DS damage.
This has made sense in the past but I really can’t think of a reason for it anymore. The only situations that still kind of makes sense would be affixes like bursting, but even that is a stretch and not really necessary if you pay attention.
TV just doesn’t seem necessary anymore and the decision between TV and DS isn’t an interesting one…and if I had to choose one to keep, it’d be DS by a mile.
100% agree with this. Those were great traits and I was very sad to lose them.
For any kind of scenario where cc is needed, only having DS would just be horrible for both pve or pvp and would end up making the spec even less wanted.
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Well you can’t get any less then not wanted at all.
As in when? This isn’t a realistic scenario anymore.
We almost never cc anymore and even if you did need to in those super rare occasions, it’s easy enough to cc and pull the mobs away. You pretty much have to do it for most other dps anyways since they have so much cleave/AoE.
If anything doubling down on our cleave would make us more attractive in dungeons and certain raids fights.
In pvp this scenario happens quite frequently.
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While my post was coming form a PVE point of view, I still don’t see this as a good enough reason. First, other melee classes put out a lot of AoE and manage to do fine. Unholy DKs for example hit everything around them almost all the time. So it’s something that can be played around.
Second, there are other way of tackling it that doesn’t require having 2 spenders that basically do the same thing, just in slightly different situations. For example, they could give it the Blinding Light treatment when it comes to interacting with CC.
This is a very bad idea, thank you for yout input though.
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If Holy Power is gone, I guess? But then you’d still need a big powerful attack soooo it’s not going anywhere.
If you read what I wrote, you’d still have a big powerful attack in DS which would do TV damage only to your main target.
While standing in consecration, casting divine storm shoots out light in all directions (similar to legions divine storm)
Not using divine storm in consecration does not send the light in all directions but just inna short radius as it is now.
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For once a good idea in these forums, this sounds about right. Let face it consecration on its own was always crap (for non prot), it was good only for niche things like getting bad rogues out of stealth (not that it would matter anymore lel) or keeping people in combat.
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oh god please no. i’d prefer no aoe be tied to combo points.
i’d rather TV stay a ST spender and divine storm go back to a short cd with it’s old animation and huge damage tbh.