To be fair, I’m complaining about them making new content with loot that’s useless to people who did challenging content in the previous season. The new dungeon is a great example of this. Is that not content aimed at me? The guy who loves doing dungeons?
I’m not sure what you are talking about. Which new dungeon?
The one I can’t spell. With the mechanical gnomes. Drops in 8.2 I think, when season 3 starts. It won’t have a mythic option for season 3, and I’m sure whatever ilvl loot it drops will be outclassed by season 3 Mythic plus gear. So if you do a few keys the first week of season 3, you’re already likely going to outgear the normal/heroic new dungeon. And by the time they make a mythic version of it available, the next raid will be out, and the heroic loot from that will likely equal the Mythic version of the new dungeon’s loot, again making it irrelevant to do the new dungeon for ilvl upgrades.
EDIT: This is all conjecture, based on things I read on the forums. But it makes sense, given past instances of releasing new content that you’ll outgear if you’ve been pushing the previous season’s content.
I mean, my bags are 414 ilvl. Other than weapons and a ring, there aren’t even really many upgrades available to me in the Mythic raid, and I’m 1/9 M and barely doing it. That… feels bad to me.
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Would it? Right now, you’re not getting a chance to do mythic progression raiding. That doesn’t sound like a very positive result.
By the time people get to mythic raiding, they have figured out that M+ is an easier way to get the gear they want. Sure, there are a few people who would like to do it for the challenge, but without all the people who do it for gear, you can’t find raids to join.
And apparently, neither can you.
Yeah, I was going to say.
I find it highly unlikely there won’t be a M+ version of the dungeon. Maybe it won’t be there right at launch like Karazhan wasn’t, but it will have a M+ version so the loot in it will be equally valuable.
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I can find raids to join. I just find them not worth the time. PUGging raids is just terminally painful compared to M+. You spend most of your time waiting around constantly replacing people who leave. I am glad I don’t have to do it in order to get gear for M+.
Pfft. Hell if I know. Just throwing out a possible suggestion. This is a problem for me. I want to do the raid and have a shot at upgrades. You are right that I’m not able to do Mythic raiding right now, and it is totally awesome that I have a source of excellent end-game level gear available to me from Mythic plus. That’s why I’m hesitant to advocate for lowering it. Perhaps a buff to raid ilvls gear across the board then? So at least heroic/mythic raid gear outclasses dungeon loot?
I just want a system where I can do challenging content in raids or dungeons and realistically have a chance at gear upgrades from both.
That’s exactly the same as lowering M+ loot though. It would simply mean that you have to raid in order to do M+. Which is something nobody who does M+ wants.
Why should raid loot outclass M+ loot anyway?
I just want a system where I can do challenging content in raids or dungeons and realistically have a chance at gear upgrades from both.
And you do. But for whatever reason you don’t feel like doing the most challenging raid content. But then complain that a lower difficulty level doesn’t have good enough loot? I don’t get it.
I believe the notes that were released specifically mentioned that this new dungeon would not have a Mythic plus option in season 3. Not until season 4. So presumably, the loot will cap out at whatever Mythic 0 level loot is, which will be worthless to someone who can just start banging out 5-7’s right away in season 3.
How about a nerf to M+ gear, as you originally suggested, so you don’t get mythic raid equivalent gear until say +15 instead of +10? Not a nerf right now, but a nerf in the next raid tier, of course. That way, at least heroic/mythic raid gear could be on a par with M+ gear.
So basically your problem here is that there aren’t enough difficulty levels. Or more correctly you feel that if there’s only one difficulty level, it should be tailored specifically to what you want. Sounds a little selfish really.
You don’t ever get mythic raid equivalent gear from M+. It caps out at 400 which is heroic raid level. Mythic raid gear has always been higher ilvl.
So why is it okay that right now, you have to do M+ to do mythic progression raiding, or for that matter, competitive PVP? How about balancing things a little better, so none of these are forced?
It’s not that he doesn’t feel like it. It’s that his guild fell apart. You know, because the core members were all ilvl 410 already from M+, so they saw little point in doing mythic raiding for one extra chance to get 415 pieces when they could be running half a dozen M+ dungeons in the same time for titanforges for the same thing.
You get 410 in your cache, and it can all titanforge.
Because it’s considerably harder to coordinate and organize 20 people than 5. It more or less requires a coordinated guild. Mythic plus does not. I’ve managed to crawl my way to 1700 IO without guildies, a dedicated group, or anything else except the damn built-in dungeon finder.
I do feel like doing it. Desperately. But my guild had a lot of people quit recently. I like them. I don’t want to contribute to the problem we’re already having (not enough people) by leaving to go find a guild doing Mythic raiding.
And why hasn’t he joined another guild? Because he can’t be bothered. There are still thousands of guilds doing mythic raiding right now. The only thing stopping him is that he’s not really that interested. And that is absolutely fine because M+ exists and many people (myself included) prefer that content. And I don’t want to have to waste my time in raids in order to do it.
And a favorable spec for M+. I think it’s reasonable to argue for parity between M+ and mythic raiding. I don’t think it’s reasonable to argue for superiority for raiding.
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But you don’t need 20 people to do a raid. You only need 10. And you can pug them cross server. So I ask you again why should raid loot outclass M+ loot?
Mythic raid loot can forge as well. The only comparable loot is what you get from Titan Residuum.
That’s simply not true. I desperately want to be raiding Mythic. Getting a chance to try out that sword/ring combo from Mythic Jaina is a dream I’m never going to realize. But I assure you, I desperately want to.
What I don’t want to do is bail out on a group of people that gave me a home when I was looking for one, have been nothing but kind and nice to me, and who I genuinely enjoy playing with and consider friends. I’m not, and have never been a guild hopper.
I mean this again assumes that literally the only reason to do raiding is gear. It’s not. Some people actually like the challenge. Obviously that doesn’t apply to content you don’t find challenging, but again that’s the whole point of multiple difficulty settings. So as many people as possible can attempt content that they find challenging, but not impossible.