Is the loss of millions of sub after the Wod exodus irrationale? What about my numbers are not in print?
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Why go into the same M+ to grind the same named gear just for an arbitrary ilvl increase? For that matter, the azerite gear is the very same just with 1 additional ring, which you now have to grind to unlock HOWEVER it will be automatically unlocked in 8.2
I understand people who just wanna skip 8.1, it feels like bad RPG game design
We had the other mentality during BC, where raiding had been largely a linear form of progression leading with fresh people beginning in Kara, and working their way through Gruul’s, Magtheridon’s, TK, SSC, etc. The problem here is that finding a guild to appeal to those people to also allow them the ability to do that content, catch up, etc, had become damn near impossible.
Thus, we had badges brought in with updated gear and other some such rewards for the sake of people being able to catch-up to other people, and prospective guilds. This is nothing new, and it shouldn’t change because people who are consistent players, and who do consistently support the game throughout an expansion are going to get tired of running the same content over and over again.
And for the record, as you put it here, these raids are not going to become obsolete because of the cancer that is effecting WoW, known as Titanforging. You wanna keep running Uldir for that off piece with haste mastery? Grab your friends who also share the same armor type as you and saddle up, friendo, cause you can run it as many times as you want over. And over. And over. And you’ll always have that potential upgrade! Isn’t that what the people who like Titanforging want? Right?
Right?
What we’re seeing is the turn of a new raid tier, a time meant to be exciting. People don’t know if they don’t like a new raid without doing it, and we’ll be entering the experimental stages now. We cannot continue to tune, and re-tune, and do all this unnecessary adjusting to content after it’s out because a small minority wanna run Uldir for the next two years because they just love hearing G’huun’s smoker voice whisper sweet nothings.
Other content deserves its time in the sun.
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There’s a lot of misinformation here and wrong assumptions. We didn’t start seeing older content from an x-pac marginalized until late TBC. In Vanilla you still needed that old content to progress since there weren’t catch up mechanics.
A couple of things to clarify…
MC came out before ZG not the other way around. MC was a 40 man Raid and ZG was a 20 so they could be considered to be part of different progression paths though most players looked at ZG as an easier to form side Raid.
You didn’t ding 60 in Vanilla and jump to the current Raid like you do now. When BWL came out if you were a new level 60 you still needed to do the Dungeons>UBRS>MC/Onyxia/ZG cycle unless you were being carried.
That same thing held true in TBC as well until Badge gear marginalized things and made facerolling Kara more attractive to many players than wiping in SSC/TK.
It wasn’t as simple as the new Raids offering better gear so you just jumped right in. You needed the old gear to even have a chance to beat the new Raids.
Imagine if the current system didn’t have any gear from World Quests, Emissaries or Warfronts and if Mythic Plus didn’t exist. The only way a player could hope to compete in the upcoming Raid would be to run Uldir.
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Raids were irrelevant in the next tier as early as Wrath, so yes. 5 mans were also irrelevant past the first 3 or 4 days back then as well.
The problem is either it’s easy to catch up at the start of a tier, or tons of people get left behind.
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They just want everybody on the same page. Or else.
Removal of content, removal of access to content, and neutering of content are mainstays of the devs’ strategy to force everyone into end game, where their spreadsheets show them everybody’s having fun.
There’s no downside to giving people increasingly less to do, right?
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I can’t speak for vanilla/BC, wasn’t here then. But I did do progression raiding during Wrath, one of the top guilds of my server, and previous raid tiers were not obsolete with the next patch during Wrath.
The Turning Tide (25 Kel’Thuzad Spell-sword) was BIS for Holy Paladins until ICC Putricide. The only thing in Ulduar that came close was the Val’anyr, and then it only beat TTT on its proc. They had the same stats.
ToC really only had a side-grade for Holy Paladins, and it wasn’t until ICC that you finally found a better healing weapon.
Up until ICC it was worth it to still run Naxx and Ulduar to finish up gear sets.
You stated the current subs are under 1 million.
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I get why this happens but I don’t understand why they put so much effort in to ensure that there is ZERO reason to run Uldir. They took the AP out of it, it will drop far lower loot than world quests… I mean can’t there be some benefit to still running it, even if it’s small?
I like raiding. I would love to jump into a pug raid of uldir on an off night will still running the newest raid with my guild… but it’s a waste of time compared to doing world quests for the one millionth time.
My friend, I think you’ll find his numbers are integers.
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They are for wow.
This is the kind of illogical crap people come up with to defend.
The stock value of the company they’re combined with doesn’t’ effect them.
What a joke.
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[Citation needed]
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One of the biggest mistakes they’ve made is making the content of an expansion obsolete.
WoW is supposed to be a world, filled with content for all. If you want to spend your $15 in an old school raid group you should do that.
Now, the only important content is the current content. Done so, by blizzard. because it’s easier to control the ADHD group it is being made for. The people who have no self control and want to be told where to go and how to do it, then they go back to the Skinner Box for their reward.
Left behind are all the people that didn’t need to be controlled. The people that just wanted entertainment and fun. They were the easiest customers to get, and the easiest to keep.
Meanwhile blizzard had concentrated on am impossible group to please.
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The amount of content that is obsolete in this game has always astonished me. There is so much to do, but the vast majority of the content is not rewarded well.
I thought that expanding into timewalking raids would help, but it really hasn’t. Probably because they are only available for one week. IMO, Blizzard might want to look into combining the seasons concept with the timewalking concept instead. For example, you could have a raid season featuring Dazar’alor, Ruby Sanctum, and Highmaul.
To solve loot issues and things like trinkets being op or whatever, the older raids could drop their old loot table (not scaled, just for transmog skins) and a currency that you could save up to trade in for Dazar’alor loot.
There’s so much to do, we just need proper rewards and the ability to go do it.
Removing content is even worse then “obsolete” content.
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Assumptions about blah blah blah, stock, and death. I really don’t get this little microtrend of trying so hard to prove that Blizz is dying. But hey, if that floats your boat go nuts. I just can’t deal with all this hyperbole anymore.
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Apparently neither can blizzard.
At some point Blizzard got some sort of feedback that led them to believe that the vast majority of players don’t want to spend a significant time in raid each week. They’d rather be off leveling alts or chasing mounts or some such.
This is why raid trash in every xpac after Cata has had both it’s volume and complexity/engagement level reduced. And to your point I think the last time we saw overlapping gear between two separate tiers was the jump from Naxx to Ulduar in WOTLK. At that point there were several pieces of BIS gear from 25 man Naxx that were equal ilvl to Ulduar 25. So for example, the best melee weapon you could get for a hunter at that time was from Naxx 25, unless you dipped into hardmodes in Ulduar.
I don’t know what the source of data is for Blizz, but there have been several blue posts and press updates saying that they have received negative feedback about the time/effort progression raiding demands, and a lot of positive feedback about M+ as an alternative path of progression. No idea what kind of KPI’s they or tracking or what channels they are pulling feedback from, let alone how they are stitching those together for attribution purposes. But it would be very nice of Blizz to provide us with some very high level blurbs so we could understand why the game is going the way it is.
Catch ups are fine assuming they are done well. BfA has gone too far to putting everyone on equal playing field. The onslaught of 370 gear should have waited until Tuesday and everything should have been pushed up +15 instead of +30. For “parallel progression” we will have N BoD and M Uldir. One will be faceroll puggable and the other will still be unpuggable past 2/8. Actually scratch that. They arent even parallel. N BoD has 5 rings. Uldir will still have 4.
M0 dungeons will drop better Azerite gear than M Uldir did. M0s are getting “slightly harder” (probably only as hard a a m0 was if it had bolstering and fort). Let that sink in.