Not at all the two have nothing to do with each other.
Nope, everyone is really nice to me. Maybe it’s you?
No.
You should probably stop using sources outside of the game to judge the game’s community.
Wowhead has always been full of negative garbage.
https://www.wowhead.com/item=49623/shadowmourne#comments
The way people communicate changes necessarily over time, but peoples’ general attitude is mostly familiar.
You can find endless examples from any third party community source of rampant toxicity as far back as archives will show.
Usually it comes down to player skill and mentality the amount of toxic behavior they see. Ran a 10 NW this morning. Hunter misdirected every pull. CC was spammed up to and including using frost trap to stop casts. Defensives were used preemptively and not a single person died in that timed key. Everyone swapped friends requests after and someone was even recruited for a mythic team.
Compare that to an 8 for example were someone bricks a key because they went into a boss blind…and well you get the toxicity you deserve truely
It’s what I expect, but idk if it’s what anyone deserves.
I’ve always been of the opinion that getting angry at people doesn’t solve anything, and isn’t worth my energy. Nothing I say to them will give me my time or state of mind back.
I get that lashing out can be cathartic, as you said in another thread, but it just doesn’t do anything for me. On the rare occasions I lash out at people it’s usually over something they said.
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WoW changed drastically when M+ came onto the scene.
The game always had some level of crappy players in the community, but M+ just supercharged degenerate behavior.
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Wasn’t so much about criticizing the game, I do it all the time.
It’s more about your attitude, acting like those two other game’s fanbases being just so extremely better. Had a sense of you are better than anyone else that plays wow because you play other MMO’s with better communities.
I could argue that if Blizzard implemented the following maybe we’d see less of this. I think most of it however, is that the pop of wow is older and we’re less tolerant of stuff nowadays b/c we expect them to have gotten better @ their jobs intead of “the same,” or “worse” as they often seem to be
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During beta, ACTUALLY respond to / acknowledge feedback – esp on glaring issues that can create buggy launches. They did this reliably TWICE in their history (Mists and Legion). while both still had SOME bugs during their launch–they weren’t the game-breaking crap that we saw in SL, DF and this xpac. I still think it’s pretty stupid that you have to PAY to beta test this game and then they dont do nearly enough to reward people for it. I have a better idea—EVERYONE should be able to beta test the game (without paying for it) and they should USE this free feedback tool to make fixes before launches. People who actually report in-game bugs etc, shoudl be rewarded with game time, not CHARGED for the privelege of doing someone else’s job and with nothing to show for it.
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Test all content that is created and meant to be role-agnostic BEFORE releasing it. I’ve been on a tyrade about Zekvir lately , I realize. But seriously? why did this make it to live? Why is it STILL not working correctly?
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Return GMs to the game. The current joke that is their customer service is INEXCUSABLE for a live-service game that still charges for xpacs and has a subscription fee. I dont want to hear white-knight excuses about how it should be more expensive…etc. I’m actually fine with that. But why was CS given the axe? Who TF thought that was good idea? The company could do with better profit distribution in order to maintain its price and still offer customer service.
Right now Blizz has once again, regressed into being arrogantly silent on feedback and too slow to implement it. This isn’t excusable at all anymore. Not in 2024, not for the price point.
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Eh…
?
Kind of, maybe? People were toxic before M+, and about much of the same things. Go faster. Go slower. Don’t waste my time. Stop stressing me out. All M+ could really have done is exacerbate an existing issue.
More of WoW is accessible to more people nowadays. Raiding isn’t as insular as it had been once upon a time. M+ is weird, because it started very accessible, but people split hairs over the accessibility of upper end key levels.
This is the most active I’ve seen Blizzard since Wrath, but sure man.
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I mean, I acknowledged that Wow had toxic players. You really didn’t refute my point.
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I think that some people tend to overthink the negative aspects of the game and fixate so much on the problems that they fail to see the positive sides.
Some are toxic in pug content but I would say that it is a minority.
Also, social media is a bad reference, just play the game and enjoy your time.
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I did refute that M+ had anything to do with it. It’s not like I need to drag out empirical evidence to do so; you also had no evidence.
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M+ was the addition of a system for more endgame content with dungeon content.
Most people hated the way dungeons used to be antiquated after leveling to max every expac and then never being played.
It’s called expanding on existing unused content. Some people don’t have time to run raids, and would rather play raid level PvE content in a shorter length playtime format and reutilizing already existing dungeons was the perfect way to do so.
Speed runners were already a thing in WoW, they are in all games.
Blizz catering to the casuals was what started killing WoW back with Cata’s launch introducing LFG and LFR.
WoW was at its peak with WoTLK’s introduction of new in game raid mechanic challenges with Ulduar giving more rewards (proto drakes) for challenging additions to existing content.
You are dense, go play hello kitty adventure island, final fantasy, whatever MMO you deem has a “better community” and stick to it since WoW is so awful.
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Well, I play other MMOs, and they just don’t have the nasty community that WoW does. Been playing this game since 04, and I saw first hand what M+ has done to this game.
I don’t care what people think on these forums, M+ supercharged degenerate behavior in the game.
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But it seems your frame of reference for toxicity is these forums.
Seriously. I dare you to go run a bunch of pug content and record every run for a week so we can see how often you actually see toxicity. Assuming you don’t provoke or ignite it yourself, I wouldn’t be surprised to see none.
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Your responses are literal anecdotal, they are “well I play x and y, and they are better than z”, “I have played z for a while but have no proof of this to begin with, but my perspective is the only truth”, “thusly M+ is what caused toxicity because I have deemed it to be so.”
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With the advent of delves, it’s getting better every day. Game design informs player attitude. Good design fosters good community. I’ve been running tier 8 learning delves every day this week, and it’s been nothing but a success. If anyone is struggling, look for the tag/description: “Learner Friendly,” that’s me, I’ll help you. I set the iLvL at 571 (and that’s just so you don’t get one shotted). I’ve geared up, and I’ve helped others gear up, and people are willing to help out. People of all item levels join the group, I’ve had folks in there at 620 and plenty at or just above 571, and it’s been very, very manageable, with only very subtle, very polite direction from me, and the groups end on very friendly terms–people usually want to go again, so we run a few. So, no, I don’t see it getting worse, quite the contrary. Just have to be the change you want to see.
Also, I’ve done some digging and it looks like you’ve never even touched M+ content. You have no KSM achieves on your account, and you have no Raider io data at all.
The only raid data on your account is from LFR which is telling.
So you’re talking all this crap about WoW and you’ve deemed the core issues stem from M+ when you’ve never even bothered experiencing that content yourself.
Typical LFR Moonguard Andy, game doesn’t bend over backwards enough to give you your participation trophy. When the game has been butchered for over a decade to go hand over fist in catering to the casual audience.
Unbelievable lmao
The PuG scene has only gotten worse over the years.
“Don’t play with PuGs” shouldn’t really be advice in any MMO lol, yet here we are.
I remember fondly, actually enjoying PuGs back in TBC and Wrath.
Today, not nearly as much, no one talks, and everyone is hyper critical of every mistake.
Maybe it’s just the passage of time. The game isn’t new anymore either, so folks aren’t patient anymore really.
The LFG system killed pugging, you have no need to have a good rep on your server or get to know people to consistently group up with anymore when you can press a button, afk and get ported to the dungeon.
And when dungeons are cake walks nowadays there’s no need to coordinate strategies either.
So the use of communication is deemed unnecessary until you get to higher levels endgame of content.
Casuals caused this, and now they’re mad that it’s turned out the way it is.