Wait, what?
That’s how the game was in Legion/BfA, but Shadowlands is the least grindy expansion we’ve had since Warlords of Draenor.
Korthia was done in a month, if you actually understood how the zone works. (Many people posting on this forum don’t.)
We raid cutting edge and plenty of folks on our team aren’t bothering with gem sockets. The benefits are very small.
Chicken or the egg story.
Which came first? Devs who cant dev or toxicity in the fan base?
You don’t get to tell me how I feel about the game, Brewa, nor my experiences in it. You can relate your own, but don’t presume to know my experiences with the game. It’s fine if you feel differently, but don’t gaslight me into believing what I know is ignorance.
Mythic Raiders only speak in gas light.
When in doubt convince people it’s the players fault.
Took away the whole purpose of the game to lvl to get to the next world now days with the lvl 10 to 50 every where whats the point no challenge anything to look forward too.
I dont know…Scripe had a very serious listed proposal for correcting WoW and it did NOT blame the players.
Scripe’s list is arguably the most down-to-earth list I saw from a mythic raider.
PTR Gone- Good idea
Make Raiding have a ower bar for entry - fully agree
Toss the key system.
All these ideas are casual friendly.
Okay. But that’s exactly the problem: People keep saying how they “feel” about the game but everything they say is factually wrong. You feel the game is grindy, but it isn’t (especially compared to the last 2 expansions). You feel that raiding is needed, but the benefits from raiding are trivial outside of raids.
And then people wonder why Blizzard doesn’t do what they want, when what they say they want doesn’t make any sense. 
Just like when people say that gearing takes too long, they want it to be like Wrath… even though in Wrath you had to grind dungeons for 6 weeks to get a single piece of badge gear. People say reputations take too long and they want it to be like Mists, because they don’t remember the DAILY scream-fests-of-rage on this forum over Golden Lotus reputation.
That’s the problem with this forum: Much of what a lot of people say doesn’t make sense, because it doesn’t stand up to any scrutiny of the facts.
What I said matches up with facts precisely though- the gems absolutely do make a difference, even if you think they are trivial or not. To fully gear out as a m+ player takes 14 weeks minimally if you are LUCKY, 20+ weeks if not, the vault giveth and it taketh away. You’re a slave to the system.
Korthia is an INSANE grind to anyone with only 1-3 hours of play time a day (most people have even less than that) - > some of us just want to hop into our preferred content and not be hobbled by a grind that takes 1-2 months (took me about 7 weeks, couldn’t do it everyday it’s terribly boring).
I was able to functionally and properly gear up in BFA in much less time to the point where I was alting regularly. I could log on and run a few dungeons and log off, and not pay attention to anything else in the game at all. This of course was 8.3
It never felt as bad as torghast, korthia, 10 weekly keys if you want to be efficient (some weeks you just don’t want to run as many, or you want to alt, but this new vault system promotes fomo in the worst way) What if that third option was the upgrade you needed? I get one shot at this PER WEEK. At least in BFA we had forging and non-raiders weren’t absolutely tied to the weekly vault.
I could go on but it’s rambling. Shadowlands systematically is worse than BFA in so many ways to non-raiders.
Please STOP. You’re telling someone that a subjective view (it feels grindy) cannot be true because from your subjective view it’s not. It’s important to realize that the things that mythic raiders complained about in past expansions (infinite AP grind) were not things complained about by the larger population, because it wasn’t a thing for them.
This is an apples and oranges conversation. Forget literally everything you know about how to play the game and just recognize that what they are saying is true for them.
I’m going to vehemently disagree, it does make sense. There can be multiple truths to things, particularly on subjective matters.
You’re focusing on actual time here and not feeling of progress. If a piece of badge gear took six weeks then you could literally measure your progress to that piece, you weren’t praying to RNGesus that you got lucky. That creates an illusion of progress.
Korthia takes about 30 days of play, 45 minutes per day. And then you’re done. That’s just the facts.
If and only if you meta-game how you do it…
Bring back profession specific item enhancements. No more RNG for them.
I’m not convinced a heavy chunk is leaving for good.
But if you told me streamers were ruining the game, I’d believe you.
What meta-game? You do the events and kill the rares. That’s how the zone works.
Will it take longer to max out Archivist rep if you only do things that don’t give Archivist rep? Yes. There’s a simple fix to that, though: Don’t do that.
You realize that the average gamer plays less than 8 hours a week, right? Most players just want to log on and do their preferred content. I would figure a mythic raider would understand this, since your group always complains the loudest about the ‘mythic raider tax’ (which is getting longer and more grindy and niche to the point where even some top guilds recruit people to fill one class super niches rather than requiring everyone to play 4-6 classes/specs well)
Yes but you understand that, that’s meta. You also know about the rift and how that doubles your daily intake. Most players don’t.
What I’ve been trying to convey is that your viewpoint is shaded by your experience as a mythic raider. Which is fine. Just please understand that the things you do aren’t necessarily obvious or fun to people that aren’t in your content group. Moreover we’re not used to paying your mythic raider taxes ;p
Some of my friends who’ve been on and off for years are heavily into D2 right now. Like I always see them on in my launcher but always in that and never this. Personally I can’t stand that game, I liked it when it was new but not just played it out but realized every glaring error in it’s design. I’d rather play D3 heretical as that sounds, and since there’s been nothing new there in years (seasons are meaningless to me, I don’t want to start over I want to progress the same character for years like I do in this), wow it will continue to be.
It shouldn’t ,it should give a more positive feeling like a cup of coffee or hot chocolate but instead it’s the coffee that taste too salty ,either on purpose or accident,even though it look good.
The storyline quest literally puts you into the rift to collect treasures. Maybe people should pay attention?