How raising someone works? Like, Sylvanas wants to raise Derek and condition him, whatever. But people say, "Oh he should've been left to rest beneath the tides as a hero." So like, an afterlife exists for people in Azeroth right? How does raising a corpse damn a soul if that soul's already been in it's respective afterlife? Is it just rubbing elbows with it's relatives and then suddenly dragged back to Azeroth and shoved into it's carcass? Can't whatever deity/powers that reside over their afterlife stop it? Do different races have different afterlives? Does the soul just sleep inside the body? I'm so confused.
EDIT: and wouldn't they remember their afterlife so they'd be like, "You b*tch you took me from Vahalla!"
Wherever they were, the Val’kyr can go fetch them. As to where they were? We don’t know.
We know that various afterlives exist, in varying levels of known detail. And it looks like you can be destined/pledged/doomed to one a number of ways... but there’s no guarantee that you won’t get snatched on the way. Bwonsamdi’s shadow hunters mark any creature they kill as his property in death, which is probably a shock to a lot of light-loving humans when they get trolled.
But to actually pull a soul back from an afterlife once it gets there? That’s powerful stuff. Only the Val’kyr can truly do it. Sylvanas/Necromancers/DKs seem to be much more about animating corpses than enslaving souls, but we don’t have a ton of confirmation on that.
We know that various afterlives exist, in varying levels of known detail. And it looks like you can be destined/pledged/doomed to one a number of ways... but there’s no guarantee that you won’t get snatched on the way. Bwonsamdi’s shadow hunters mark any creature they kill as his property in death, which is probably a shock to a lot of light-loving humans when they get trolled.
But to actually pull a soul back from an afterlife once it gets there? That’s powerful stuff. Only the Val’kyr can truly do it. Sylvanas/Necromancers/DKs seem to be much more about animating corpses than enslaving souls, but we don’t have a ton of confirmation on that.
apparently what dooms people is being turned into undead.
it is an act of necro-undead magic, something that isn't normal.
when derek is raised he still has the memories of when he died, so i would assume that once you are dead, everything is black.
but maybe souls experience something different.
it is an act of necro-undead magic, something that isn't normal.
when derek is raised he still has the memories of when he died, so i would assume that once you are dead, everything is black.
but maybe souls experience something different.
I think the Val'kyr can only get people from the shadowlands, but depending on the power of the necromancer, they can get people from anywhere. It's probably not fully explained though because it will put limits on what the writers can do. At the same time... that might not really be a bad thing because it would stop them from doing things that a lot of people consider to be stupid.
You should be confused, because Blizzard has played really fast and loose with these concepts since Warcraft has been a thing.
I would bet that they're either going to come around and try to tie it all together in a very heavy-handed way and create a million contradictions and soft retcons as the narrative pushes into the Shadowlands in the near future, or they're simply never even going to attempt to create a universal constant.
I really hope it's the latter, because as frustratingly inconsistent as the nature of souls and undeath and the afterlife has been, when Blizzard tries to lock down big concepts, they invariably make it super shallow, super boring, and deal dramatic collateral damage to the integrity of the lore that they never bother to clean up.
I would bet that they're either going to come around and try to tie it all together in a very heavy-handed way and create a million contradictions and soft retcons as the narrative pushes into the Shadowlands in the near future, or they're simply never even going to attempt to create a universal constant.
I really hope it's the latter, because as frustratingly inconsistent as the nature of souls and undeath and the afterlife has been, when Blizzard tries to lock down big concepts, they invariably make it super shallow, super boring, and deal dramatic collateral damage to the integrity of the lore that they never bother to clean up.
10/28/2018 11:53 PMPosted by Etheldaldapparently what dooms people is being turned into undead.
it is an act of necro-undead magic, something that isn't normal.
when derek is raised he still has the memories of when he died, so i would assume that once you are dead, everything is black.
but maybe souls experience something different.
So Forsaken are soulless then?
Cannibal's Unified Theory on Souls
I take into consideration all canon resources that I've been made aware of. The only headcanon things below are the metaphorical "tethers" attaching souls to bodies.
I take into consideration all canon resources that I've been made aware of. The only headcanon things below are the metaphorical "tethers" attaching souls to bodies.
A spirit, soul or life essence is tethered to a creature's body. When the creature dies, the tether is broken and the soul begins passing on to the Shadowlands. There is a short window here where priests, monks, shaman, druids, etc. can grab hold of the nearby spirit and re-tether it to the body while healing the physical wounds on the corpse itself. This is how revival and resurrection works.
All souls can be tethered to certain objects after they are un-tethered from the creature's body, hence soul gems. Some creatures naturally have extra tethers on their souls to specific locations, such as demons and some demon hunters with the Twisting Nether, elementals with the planet they originate on (Azeroth's elementals were artificially linked to the Elemental Plane, crafted by the Titans), and the Wild Gods that Freya tethered to the Emerald Dream. Some spellcasters, such as necromancers, can re-tether souls to new bodies or the old bodies imperfectly as well, as with death knights and other undead. The imperfect tether is what causes undead to feel only slight sensations of pain, discomfort and other physical stimuli, and why the Light is so painful to their existence. Warlocks and liches can create extra tethers from their own souls to soulstones and phylacteries respectively, ensuring they don't pass on to the Shadowlands but rather rest until enough power is regained to later tether themselves back to their body or to a new one once it's regenerated.
Souls naturally produce spirit energy, also called the Spirit of Life, Chi, E'ko, the fifth element and inner energy. It's a power connecting all living things and bringing balance to the other elements. Spirit energy can be harnessed by spellcasters and used to fuel other forms of magic as well.
If a soul is not revived, re-tethered or harnessed immediately after death, it passes on to the Shadowlands. Here, various forces can take control of or guide these souls. Spellcasters and magical practitioners can greatly affect souls. Wielders of the Light can bring spirits into a state of peace, wielders of the Void can consume the souls until they're no more than writhing, destroyed reverberations of their anguish, and wielders of fel can either consume or reduce souls to soul shards, both producing more potent fel magics and destroying the soul in the process. Loa such as Bwonsamdi can take the souls of trolls, druids can slumber eternally within the Emerald Dream, the Light can create a heaven-like feeling for the faithful, Elune/Mu'sha can take the souls of night elves and tauren, val'kyr can take the souls of vrykul and other powerful warriors to the Halls of Valor, spirit healers can help guide certain souls back to their bodies to be re-tethered, etc.
If a soul is not guided or controlled by another being, their next steps are determined by their life. If they died having not completed a life goal or hold resentment as a spirit and seek vengeance, they tend to be tied to the area in which they died or an object that holds significance to them. We view them as ghosts, wraiths, banshees, etc. These spirits are trapped drifting between the Shadowlands and the physical realm, seeking release from their eternal suffering. They're not necessarily evil, but often hunger for physical contact, causing pain to the living they touch. Since the Shadowlands can show visions of the past in certain areas, many of these types of souls are trapped in a time of torment, such as the time they died or witnessed loved ones being killed, leading them to attack any living creatures in the area out of fear and hatred.
Those who died with no resentment or lived a fulfilling life, and are not guided by another being, simply wander the Shadowlands in a state of contentment.
No, they have souls attached to them, just imperfectly. It's why the Light is so painful to their existence.10/28/2018 11:55 PMPosted by NelthiusSo Forsaken are soulless then?
Didn't they do away with that and explain Sylvanas' actions are what damned her, not being undead in itself?
10/29/2018 12:11 AMPosted by GalenarDidn't they do away with that and explain Sylvanas' actions are what damned her, not being undead in itself?
[/quote]
or wasn't because she literally landed in saronite, blood of one of the evilest creatures on azeroth that had make her look those visions?
i don't remember.
How long can we go without saying the MC words?
Saronite has effected literally no undead ever.10/29/2018 12:13 AMPosted by Etheldald10/29/2018 12:11 AMPosted by GalenarDidn't they do away with that and explain Sylvanas' actions are what damned her, not being undead in itself?
or wasn't because she literally landed in saronite, blood of one of the evilest creatures on azeroth that had make her look those visions?
i don't remember.
Arthas clothed his armies in it.
10/29/2018 12:20 AMPosted by GrandbladeHow long can we go without saying the MC words?
MIND CONTROL! *gets yanked out of thread by shepherd's crook*
YOU SON OF A~10/29/2018 01:51 AMPosted by Galenar10/29/2018 12:20 AMPosted by GrandbladeHow long can we go without saying the MC words?
MIND CONTROL! *gets yanked out of thread by shepherd's crook*