Is it as bad as everyone says?

I was going to Main my Pally in DF, but after reading forums and watching youtube videos, the general consensus is Pallys are pretty much the worst-off classes in DF when it comes to our talent trees and fun of the class. Since Blizzard is done changing the talent trees and now on to tuning that likely means Pally will be in a similar state for the entirety of DF.

So, my question is it really that bad? I have a Monk also that I am now planning on maining because of all the Pally feedback, but I like the Pally’s aesthetic and soloing ability a lot more than Monk. Would rather play Pally, but if their talent trees and fun is as bad as claimed I would rather stay away.

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Depends on how serious you want to be I guess. I tend to also think that the Paladin trees are the least inspired of any class, but I don’t think the sky is falling. Prot has slower HoPo generation than on live (which honestly is probably a good thing overall), and Ret has the option of a bunch of Consecration talents that maybe…some(?)…people asked for? But if you generally enjoy the class now, you’ll probably be fine with it in DF too.

If you don’t like Paladins on live and were hoping for broad sweeping changes, then you will probably be disappointed.

I haven’t done any dungeon testing on Holy yet, so I can’t really comment on that too much, but if I have to do a bunch of hard casting I am going to be…less excited.

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It’s not that bad. The problem is that I’m SL protpaladins are OP when used correctly. Example: in Heroic raids I can actually heal more than my damage taken. Prot pallys are great in DF just not super OP like in SL.

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Depends, which pally are we talking about?

In my personal opinion, it’s that bad.

  • Extremely limited talent build options.
  • Uninspired talents that try (very unsuccessfully) to ‘shout out’ classic, cooler abilities. Literally meme-level terrible.
  • Completely unfocused class themes. Also meme-level terrible.

Monks are dope, as are Shamans and Priests. This dude has been my primary alt for a while, he’ll likely become my main in Dragonflight, unless I can get a Human Shaman.

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After tauren rogue, everything is possible

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Fun aside, the issue isn’t how good Paladin is but how good it feels relative to everyone else.

Paladin will be fine. Ret will always have some struggle finding groups, but it will never get in the way of completing the content you want to. The issue is that our tree is uninspired, and compared to SL feels like we’re actually losing parts of our utility. If you really want to main Paladin, main paladin. Just be aware that there are other classes that would feel better.

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Is Holy really as bad as people say? ):

Depends if you don’t like choice, or don’t like contributing anything outside of your role.
If you’re happy only dealing damage as Ret and not providing many further contributions then the class will be fine.

If you want to provide comparable group benefit to other players in your groups then unfortunately Paladin is not your class.

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It seems to be extremely subjective. To me, having to generate holy power via crusader strike restricts healing, since holy light and flash of light have been almost useless. Light of Dawn, the only aoe spell, its 15 yards and a frontal cone, again very restrictive (there is a talent to make it 40 yards now).

Holy paladin is like a ret paladin that heals, but a ret generates more holy power.

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My main is Paladin. I’ll skip the expansion if pally sucks.

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Anyone who knows me, knows I’ve gone back and forth over the years on various classes. Warrior, Paladin, DK. Etc. I’ve done it all. So my personal opinion after a lot of thought is that Cortico will once again rock the Light since he knows how to swing it.

In short, a lot of Paladins are screaming doom and gloom. Some of this may be merited as the class ‘does’ have some needs. I have a personal wishlist of my own, but the question there is ‘would such things be realistic or teneble?’ I think so. Blizzard may not.

But at the end of the day the real question is this.
Will we be playable? Absolutely. Will we be competitive? Yes.

In my experience, good Paladins. Ie: Ones of the skill level of Rhaze, Kyre, Marlan etc. do the following. We endure. Even when the odds are stacked against you, a Paladin can and will compete even if others say otherwise. The best part is the other players tend to get a surprised Pikachu face when you beat their teeth in. Why? Because the unassailable and completely accurate assessment of Paladins according to the masses is that they (as in Vanilla) suck.

I dispute that.

I would say try it. You might like it. Looks like Paladin’s going to be my boy for DF. I do like Monk, but my critique of that is the Xuen Statue. I just don’t like it tbh, but I do like Brewmaster.

Face it mons. We stared down and outlasted Furor and anyone who played EQ knows exactly what I am alluding to with that statement. We’ll outlast this scenario, get fixed and that’ll be that.

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No.

I’ve said this many times, go look at other melee specs and how they’re being handled. Ignorance is not bliss; it’s just ignorant. Laziness would be even worse if you don’t look, now that you are not unaware.

Asking for slightly more equal treatment is not asking for too much. Divine Steed off GCD is not unreasonable. Auras on their own GCD is not unreasonable. Having a class tree that isn’t just full of filler and number increases is not unreasonable. If you bothered to actually look at other classes/specs, a lot of the things people ask for here are pretty fair. We’re not asking to be OP or #1 dps or anything like that.

If that’s your main Paladin, you are not competitive at all and you are literally speaking from ignorance, using hyperbole and dramatic wording. Ironic for the person claiming other people are “doom and glooming.” You’re doing wholly the same, except in the entirely opposite direction.

Hopium. Blizzard only understands one thing: Money.

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I mean, i have DT with the legendary effect, consecration is useful again, crusader aura has a damage aspect (increased range with talent), both of our finishers get their legendary effect, we can add in a new finisher for single or cleave, we have a mid range toolkit. I played all of the specs I do normally, and pally looks like my main. This is just ret, btw. I can’t speak to the other 2 specs, just a low IQ DPS, lol.

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If you liked SL Ret, it’s going to be slightly worse. (You might not even notice it)

If you thought SL Ret had problems, then hold the prepatch’s beer

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Start it in prepatch and see how it feels or when you get to 70. If you don’t like it then reroll to Monk. I reckon Paladin won’t be as bad as people say. People who don’t know why they think Paladins suck other than “the general consensus is Pallys are pretty much the worst-off classes” IN BETA but not actually knowing but will just go with it because thats what they were told though they enjoy paladins will be a problem the whole expansion… This will be worse than the class itself.

If you liked SL Ret, it’s going to be slightly worse. (You might not even notice it)

This is what I’m expecting. The end of an expansion going into a new one is usually tough because we’re going from peak performance back to square one. Haste being reset will make everything feel slower, etc. But on top of this come nerfs to HP generation for prot and procs for ret. I actually agree with the other guy who said part of the class is overcoming the shortfalls. I played a paladin since vanilla, where people would actually laugh at any spec other than holy, and it’s been my main for most expansions since TBC. A good player will still be able to excel and set themselves apart, I think. I do womder if specs like ret will ever end up feeling fun in DF though.

dont believe rets when they say they wont play ret
ret was everywhere even in vanilla, nuff said

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A huge number of the throughput talents are awful and should not be taken - they are traps and wasted points. A huge amount of our damage is tied to Consecration, so every time the tank needs to move, a bunch of damage gets left on the floor. The rotation is unexciting because the proc rate of a lot of talents has been nerfed. We are the slowest and squishiest of melee. What little utility is offered, we can’t afford to take. Crusader adding range to a few our our buttons is ‘nice’, but taking it costs 25% of what crappy mobility we have.

I’m sure Ret’s numbers will come out ‘fine’ (probably mid-range, scaling poorly, as usual), but there’s not a lot fun about the spec.

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The talent trees class and spec are just damage amps. The class tree was made for prot with ret and holy as an afterthought. Our Art of War proc rate was neutered killing the wake of ashes modifying talents. We’re losing mobility and the only melee without a baseline mobility options.

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