Is Holy Paladin is bad in arena (atleast solo shuffle)

Classes Paladin
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So first off a disclaimer I’m not some 1200 cr hpally, ive been 2800+ before i started playing classic im not 2400+ this season
.yet as im getting used to the class again…

i came back last week after 10.0.0.5 dropped and im already 2200 …this is what I’ve noted in the last week or so of queing solo shuffle on Holy paladin, I commeted on this on reddit and I want to know if others agree

Beware this is a long one…

100 → 25% damage reckoning nerf and 100->50 stacks to proc it nerf…seemed like that was only thing good about hpally…wog hits for like 5-> 8% of health per cast and that’s 3 holy power…flash of light literally heals for 30k a cast and holy light…that just can’t be cast in pvp…those flash of lights are when a hpal can cast in general…

We have good cds but with 75% of games having disc priest those are kinda negated…

With new wings you have to keep 5 holy power for melee wings or you could die in a pinch, so you have to pool holy power for that, this means you aren’t using a lot of holy power to proc extra wings or for more stuns…you can really only optimaly use holy power comsistently when wings are up or for about 10 seconds after wings ends…after that you have to pool holy power for next wings…so essentially it feels like this wings cost change nerfed every talent that says “when you use holy power”

Between wings you have to spam high mana cost flash of light to build holy power you can’t spend when you hit the 10 seconds before wings (takes about 5-10 sec to build holy power for wings without toll)…when that very heal hits for jack unless you spec caster which is even worse because you won’t have melee wings to deal damage…and in solo shuffle that pressure is the only way hpal wins a lot of games.

15 seconds on wings also feels like a huge nerf even with a shorter cd…

Wings is 15 seconds and judge is 12 seconds…judge is most of melee wings healing so now you can only ever get 2 judges per wings…the problem here is that at 15 seconds length for wings any cc will make it so you only get 1 judge…micro cc included. More importantly judges heal during wings is based off damage done…so since wings only lasts 15 seconds your entire wings healing can get countered by most defensive and run out as those defensives end…so instead of being able to pressure at length after the cd your healing and damage gets negated and wings are over…the reverse feels true if you use wings defensivily.

crusader strike healing only keeps up with dps and doesn’t top people and you can’t really cast during melee wings if you are in melee unless you are a God juker…so you either have to stand in and pray crusader strike is enough or run away, cast and forgo your melee wings

I’ts easy to think (but you get it back like 20 sec after and their defensives won’t be up)…but then your team has no cds to dps and you don’t have residual pressure you would have had after opponents defensives… your kinda hoping to create that pressure…assuming you arent behind because hpally hps seems low so you may need to use wings to heal…

Also, the meta of all disc priests is really a counter because of purge and MD

Overall the class seems to have a bunch of design flaws that conflict with each other…

There seems to be a fantasy of hpally being a long cast big reward healer (which I don’t think works period this expac at all) or melee healer in the action…those 2 ideas conflict at a fundamental level because most people in melee wont let you cast for free lol…the problem is building the class to do either well makes that play style a bit broken or negates the other, so both styles are kind of mediocre.

You also almost feel punished for spending holy power the majority of the time but its about the only way to heal yourself if a melee is on you because you cant really cast and those same casts dont heal for much…

Hpally really seems only good queuing into specifc comps with good teammates and requires teammates to play completely different than with other healers (in solo shuffle most cant adapt like that)…hpally got hit hard because reckoning offered pressure and healing in one talent…now both are gone

Idk if others agree but i feel like these 4 changes wouldnt be too overpowered but would fix some issues

  • drop melee wings to 3 holy power (from 5)
  • increase melee wings length to 20 seconds (from 15) (you could leave melee wings length alone by having melee wings reduced the cooldown of judgement…the main need is to be able to reliably cast 3 judgements per wings)
  • change reckoning stacks needed to 65-75 range (from 100)
  • increase the judge damage of reckoning to 30-50% (from current 25%)

That or some other overhall or flash of light/holy power change (maybe bring back old divine favor?)

I would like to know if others agree or disagree with any of this, i’ve only been back a week and would like others opinion…maybe im just washed from skipping SL and coming back to pvp in 10.0.0.5

2 Likes
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We’re better in Arena than we are in RBG’s
Not that that’s saying much lol

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I also want to point out because solo shuffle doesn’t want 2 of the same class/spec healer in the same match it may seem like as if only only 45% of the time you see a disk priest as a dps but because you Queue h pal there are so many disc priests to match up you almost always get one every single round… And this priest is a counter… I swear a good 75% or more of my games are against them

2 Likes
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I’ll say it certainly isn’t disproving my theory…lol

6

Great post! I’m hoping they do something. I’d love for them to revert the melee wings change. It’s just too clunky. Imagine if other healers had to use 5 GCDs just to be able to activate your main healing CD… I bet you the class forums would be a mess! I haven’t played retail WoW in a while but I’m pretty sure no one besides us needs to do that right now.

I came back to test DF PvP out and ended up quitting classic wotlk because melee wings was so fun!! I’m mean when was the last time you played and lost track of time because you were having so much fun. Honestly, now it feels bad… Aura of reck nerf hurt, Duration of melee wings hurt, 5 Holy Power cost really hurt… I just love not being able to use WoG(at least 10sec before wings CD) trying to get wings procs in a meta where you need the most healing possible to keep people alive. I will always play Paladin because this has been my class since 2007 but man is it annoying to play right now.

2 Likes
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Really? I’ve been enjoying it in RBGs, melee wings is almost infinite with how fast reck pops and with beacons keeps people alive for a while.

I am 1600 though you are way above me there so maybe that’s why. I imagine hpal can get shut down pretty bad if focused? After bubble I think survivability seems pretty bad. What would you say you dislike about it?

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Not that I PvP, but can’t you divine toll into AC? It’s still two GCD but certainly better than 5.

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The best 3s team in NA, and probably the world runs holy pally exclusively.

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Oh for sure! If you didn’t get 5 HP before entering combat, you gotta burn DT for the first set of wings. It’s awkward when they don’t line up since DT’s cd is 1 min and melee wings CD is 45sec. Hpala is already such a cooldown-based class, so having to burn a CD for a CD kinda sucks tbh. It’s clunky and doesn’t make for great gameplay. I mean at the end of the day it is what it is. I’ve been making it work.

1 Like