Every time i see the 11.2 changes it just looks that Bos is, again, being overtuned so it will be forced everyone troaths.
Yeah “juSt DoNt pLay iT”. But is yet again, another patch cycle where development time is being wasted on a spell that is objectevly flawed.
8 Likes
Looking like a 2H breath season
5 Likes
At least breath is a charge spell instead of a ‘channel while trying to keep rune power up’ game anymore. Be interesting to try it and see how it’s play has changed.
3 Likes
Yes, if you dont like it dont play it.
Its not objectively flawed, its subjectively hated by a few on these forums.
It would be so easy to equalize procs and damage between 2H and DW while giving 2H Razorice and removing the Obliterate damage buff from MotFW.
So far, Blizzard hasn’t signaled at all that they have any intention of doing so, nor that they even understand that there’s a problem.
Frostbane is DoA for anything other than DW, why have a talent build that can’t be chosen by people who prefere the 2H esthetic?
Why is it so hard to figure this out?
The community has litterally offered every “fix” up on a silver platter. The least they can do is give us some sort of “communication” on the matter.
2 Likes
2h already gets 100% proc chance on an auto crit, it gets RI passively through the spec, it gets Obliterate damage as well for absolutely nothing.
What you think is easy, isnt actually easy, especially with the way you want to do it which would completely destroy the damage of the spec. So you reduce KM procs… and equalize them… congrats… now your damage is crap because Killing Machine still acts the way it does so KM procs would still hold a very high importance but it would happen so rarely that the entire thing would feel like absolute garbage.
There isnt a problem.
Good.
Because its a DW spec, and its aesthetic.
Dont know, you havent figured it out though, you just have suggestions that make the spec objectively worse. By “fixing” something you make things infinitely worse.
Not good solutions. Thats your problem. You think they are good because you said it. You have nothing to actually address the issues that arise from your fixes. You havent even acknowledged there are problems while simultaneously saying no one has poked holes in your suggestions.
They did. They arent doing what you are suggesting. That is enough communication.
Without a doubt.
They pushed pillar windows even more than before a well. With S3, youll have so much crit it won’t matter as much, but really wish they would stop adding more power into 2 buttons for most of your damage windows.
They said they want to make other spells feel impactful, but buff oblit by 30% and now this week breath by 20% with a small nerf to duration.
That being said, the new breath imo is the best version they have come out with. I was previously a breath hater and actually enjoy this new one.
3 Likes
Dawg, the spell is completely redesigned.
You just press it and keep doing your rotation.
Read the [bleep] changes.
I don’t know why people insist on 2H as if it was an alternative. The description of the spec says they prefer one-handed weapons. This whole 2H Frost for next season sounds more like wishful thinking to me. DW will probably still be better.
It’s objectively avoided at best, and hated at worst, by a significant majority of the Frost DKs that raid at the very least:
https://www.archon.gg/wow/builds/frost/death-knight/raid/talents/mythic/all-bosses#talents-heatmap
This suggests, but does not necessarily indicate, that the skill is flawed in some way.
They insist on it because in the original implementation of Frost, way back in the “all 3 specs can tank” times, 2h frost was the optimal choice for DPS frost - for a lot of reasons. It wasn’t until Legion that frost was forced into dual wield, and that change was largely hated at the time - so much so that the moment the Artifact weapons were gone blizz was forced to add in a way to make the spec work with 2h weapons again.
8 Likes
When DKs came out, they were billed as a 2h only class. Their special niche was that all 3 specs could tank or dps. DKs even had a weird tanking spec for 3 drake sarth that went into all 3 trees.
Dual wield had a single talent in frost that simply increased chance to hit, nerves of cold steel I think it was called. It wasn’t until much later in the expansion, pretty sure it was around when Icecrown came out as a raid, that another dual wield talent was added that made it worth using. That talent was called threat of thassarian. Using an armor penetration build with dual wield produced some sick damage as well, probably was a better option than running around with Shadowmourne as unholy. As Latsyrc said, the spec wasn’t forced into dual wield until Legion. It upset a TON of people, especially when they saw what Frostmourne got turned into while paladins got to run around with Ashbringer.
I think this change would have went over easier if they gave Unholy a petless option, since they completely removed Blood being able to be a dps tree as well which was very popular too at times.
That said, I did like how Frost played before Breath ruined the spec. The new redesign is long overdue and I welcome it. Looking forward to trying it out.
12 Likes
Because of “me hit obliterate, mage go die” back in WoD when 2h got like ~80% Obliterate boost. Thats it.
And thats why DW should always be better than 2h. If Blizzard is telling the players that Frost prefers 2 1h weapons then that should ALWAYS be the best option. Not to mention 2h gets all this stuff while DW gets absolutely nothing, and 2h players still want more.
This was DW.
It wasnt.
Because it was a DW spec…
No it wasnt.
This is wrong as well.
When the spec was split, Frost was absolute garbage and every expansion DW was the go to dps choice. All the way from 3.2 (at the very least) all the way to… now (outside of 1 raid tier where 2h was on par with DW) frosts optimal choice was DW.
In Legion, the amount of frost players actually increased by around 7x the amount it was in WoD. Going straight DW was not largely hated, it was largely liked because it wasnt trying to do several things and they could actually focus on the spec and not trying to balance DW and 2h. Then in BFA, it was also DW only. It wasnt until SL that they allowed people to wield a 2h and kind of screwed up everything. Not only did people need a 2h weapon that was 20ilvls higher than 2 1h weapons to be on par, but it flooded a DW specs loot table with 2h weapons that just made playing the game WORSE.
No they werent.
That was an experiment.
No it didnt. It increased offhand damage as well as increasing hit. Not to mention how KM worked benefitted DW prior to 3.2 as well. Obliterate wasnt this involved ability within the spec. It basically didnt do anything but damage.
Nope. 3.2. 3.3 was ICC.
It was worth using prior to Threat of Thassarian.
It was better than Frost with Shadowmourne, 100%.
When an option blows out another in terms of performance, that is a soft force into that option. Anyone not going DW outside of the 1 raid tier that had DW and 2h on par with each other, or you were just super unlucky in getting a 1h strength weapon in Cata, they were just trolling.
To this day blizzards most insane/stupid decision in lore. I’ll die on this hill, whoever thought we should get those temu DW swords instead of the real deal frostmourne when the opportunity was so clear cut should have lost their damn job. When the idea was even hinted at it should have been laughed at repeatedly and derisively.
10 Likes
It is, but here we are. It’s a bummer seeing people get happy whenever the gap between the subspecs gets smaller like it did with the legendary axe in dragonflight only to have to go back to dual wield eventually.
Because its a DW spec.
So people clinging on to an inferior option that is 2h should have gotten what exactly? The fact of the matter is Frost got more popular when it went to DW only.
To me it’s not even a 2h vs DW thing. It’s the damn principal. Everyone else got their proper leggos, mostly anyway. Biggest kick in the teeth was Ashbringer. It’s not that they shouldn’t have gotten ashbringer it’s that they DID, it was a perfect fit and it was done proper. There is so much I could say about it but yes here we are. They can maybe make amends in legion remix. I’m not holding my breath but it’s possible. Anyway I’m ranting and derailing, hills and dying I suppose.
5 Likes
Would it be a great “remix” to the expansion if they did a 2h DK with the OG weapon? Absolutely, but as much as I’d like it I’m sure there would be a massive overpopulation of DKs. Best we can hope for is some new appearances we can get that’ll carry over to live and not just reskins.
3 Likes
I said earlier I’ll die on this hill, you will not convince me otherwise. Frost should have went down the 2h route for design in legion, balanced and tuned accordingly so we could have wielded a reforged Frostmourne. It’s been done to death but that point will forever stand.
5 Likes
That makes sense to me as I played Frost in PvP back in WoD and Obliterate was really fun to press. But those times are gone, it was 2014… Frost was never a 2H spec.
Even if it was… People have to stop thinking that Blizzard needs to do everything to please them. Sometimes that’s what they decided they want their game to be like, if you don’t like it, play some other class/spec.
I like the state of Unholy DK now, if Blizzard destroys what I like about the class/spec I will just go back to Warlock. That’s it. I won’t play a class/spec I don’t like for years hoping that Blizzard will one day change it to what I would like it to be.
Maybe you should just play Arms Warrior.
Then you are in the minority. Why change a DW spec from what it was? Because Gripe on the forums says so?
And if my car had jets it could fly. Thats not the reality though is it? Its a DW spec whether you like it or not, Frostmourne is gone and was scrap metal strewn about Icecrown Citadel, and it was a whimpy “2h sword”. Dont know why you guys like it so much.
I know, 2h was a gimmick and still is that people are clinging to.
It wasnt. This is cope from people that want to ignore that Frost grew 7x going into Legion. There also wasnt a lot of complaints about DW if any. People back then knew it was a DW spec, they just hated Masterfrost and rightfully so. Going into Legion Masterfrost was killed, 2h was removed and they were able to actually focus on the spec which boosted its popularity. When they brought 2h back, Frosts popularity was pretty abysmal. It didnt do anything to actually help with the popularity of the spec.