The restriction of forbearance feels so dated. It unnecessarily dissuades multiple paladins from playing in a group in a way that no other classes do. In PvP it feels like a relic from years passed thats still there because it always has been, not because it needs to be.
Counters exist in the game to bop, such as dispel and shatter. Lay on hands is still a once per round/encounter/boss fight mechanic. A BoP and a Lay on hands is too much but back to back pain suppressions are fine?
The concept and purpose of forbearance needs a big rethink. Any aspect of a classes design should be to add flavor and/or compelling choices. Forbearance is only a restriction to gameplay.
20 Likes
If we get new defensives maybe. Right now forbearance exists so that a group of paladins can’t spam BoP or LoH on a single target over and over again. It’d be a bit busted in certain cases. That said, there are ways they could balance that differently.
8 Likes
The reason it exists is because in a perfect scenario where there isn’t a dispel on the other team, a paladin could lay on hands, bop twice then bubble to basically be impossible for someone to deal with.
That being said, the amount of dispels available make it more punishing than anything. If they want to keep it in the game it needs a much shorter duration or be removed if our defensives are dispelled. They also need to figure out a way to deal with how bad it feels to negatively impact other paladins in your group. No other class has to deal with that.
Lay on hands is something that needs to not give forbearance though. Soul of the forest with NS from druids is basically a lay on hands every 45 seconds. Not sure why a 7 min cooldown nature’s swiftness needs to punish us for using it.
5 Likes
I was actually coming to forums to ask about forbearance on 10.0.7 to see if they were changing anything. I legit die in RSS to Hpal who bops me for no reason and then I cant bubble when I need to… In the current meta where you legit get MD’d in 0.5 seconds and how short bubble even lasts to begin with it seems pretty silly to keep it around. Even Hpal’s are soooooo easy to kill once you pop bubble its actually sad. I do understand that you don’t want double bop or lay on hands or triple and so forth but maybe make it so YOUR bubble isn’t affected by forbearance only BOP/LOH or reduce the debuff time. As it is right now its so punishing and its painful to play with an HPAL in RSS.
2 Likes
Yep you basically have to let the ret bubble on his own when he’s low then take over from there once forbearance is gone.
It’s not great.
1 Like
Blessing of protection is the reason why forbearance exists, and Lay on Hands to an extent.
As long as this spell exists Forbearance will too.
That said, if BoP were to become “Ally only”, you’d only need it for BoP, and Divine Shield could potentially see some buffs as a result. Perhaps the biggest one being no need for Shattering Throw / Mass Dispel.
1 Like
Fair enough on other players, but other bloody paladins shouldn’t lock us out from using our own god damn bubble.
No other class suffers this stupid penalty. It really sucks in Pvp, when another pally wants to help in the bg but instead screws you over. Or vice versa, you want to help but don’t if it’ll screw them over. Or worse in world pvp, where they use an allied paladin to troll you with Lay on Hands at full health. Locking you out of all your abilities so his horde buddies get a super easy kill.
3 Likes
Maybe instead of making them immune to a recast of it, they could make it less effective per cast.
2 Likes
Forbearance should get removed if a bubble is dispelled.
19 Likes
Or a backlash that deals damage to the dispeller scaling on duration remaining. Forbearance is a penalty on top of other penalties in PvP. I get the purpose to avoid cheesing mechanics in PvE.
There should be some thought involved in dispelling a 5min cd spell if it’s worth the cost. It’s not like 8 seconds is an eternity. Definitely should be a risk vs reward.
I can say my win rate with retribution paladins in arena is an absolute dog turd.
Ccs share and forbearance just leaves me absolutely gimped when healing them and they’re already sponge buckets for damage.
In this scenario I don’t see this changing. My understanding is that Blizzard discourages arena teams with multiples of the same class on the team.
1 Like
It’s not that it needs a change, but in RSS it can absolutely rek you.
With the buffs to ret I probably won’t struggle with it. It just happens to be they take massive damage with no mobility and I have a window that after bubble, I can’t use BOP or LOH.
Yeah it definitely sucks.
The main reason for forbearance is pvp.
They don’t want a team of 1 hpal and 2 rets that just bubble into bop into lay themselves one after the other that could be incredibly cheesy into no dispel team.
I would prefer bubble, bop and lay of hands to be reworked entirely if it was just me.
1 Like
Yeah but you’d like, just switch targets outside of Solo shuffle right?
darn, but i can see the issue with it is multiple bubbles and wings at once… Dunno… I am torn on the issue
again we should really have a flair for pvp and pve. but forbearance exists solely because bop, spellwarding, bubble, lay on hands exist.
in a pve standpoint, you could historically ignore alot of physical attribute mechanics with bop, imagine having 3 paladins that can effectively chain bop you 3 times. or even better you have two prot pally tanks and can spellward chain viva bubble, spellwarding, spellwarding again. even lay on hands becomes stronger when you can chain it for healing mechanics like “jailer healing soak”
pvp yues its annoying that it can be dispelled but still chaining bubble ospellwarding then topping with loay on hands after both bubbles are spent is extremely strong.
It’s there so paladins can’t make themselves unkillable for 30+ seconds . IF they could lay on hands (which can become a 3 min cooldown if used at critical health in PTR) follow it up with blessing of protection which provides them with physical damage immunity for 10 seconds and then immediately casting Divine shield for a additional 8 seconds of FULL damage immunity. with the option to heal yourself to full via flash of light or regenratin. and this isn’t even counting your regular healing through word of glory and other heals or even using divine protection and shield of vengence which would also reduce incoming damage.
I think forbearance should remain for bubble, bop, Bosw, but not for loh.
In fact it used to be this way. Not sure why they added forb to loh during an era where you couldn’t even use it in pvp.
1 Like