I was tanking a TW ZF run, was going fine barring a resto shaman thinking he should be the only one that matters, In the heated whisper exchange, ht got on my back for a 20$ demon spike uptime. Thing is, in TW instances, I seldom pop demon spikes as nothing seems to hit me that hard anyway. Am I fine in my attitude and he was just looking for any reason to be toxic or is he right and I need to blow my defensives even if there is no need for them?
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So technically if you’re not dying and you’re having fun you’re not doing anything wrong, but from a healer perspective tanks that don’t use defensives efficiently require more work, so you’re putting more pressure on their role. In TW it’s really nbd, but in raiding and mythic plus especially proper CD use by the whole group can alleviate group wide issues, not just make individual roles succeed. DHs especially have a range of passive and active mitigation in their kit, and when passives wear off you can absolutely get flattened out of nowhere unexpectedly even by multiple lesser damage sources if the RNG deems it so 
so rotating spikes with those passives is a good habit to have
Thing is, this “healer” was one of those “I am the ony one that matters” type. I, and the rest of the group, were at one of the bonus bosses and he was tring to solo witch doctor.
I main a paladin tank and tank on DK, Monk and warrior as well, so I know how, in content you don’t out gear, uou need to rotate defensives as well as try and keep one available for the fan turns brown moments.
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i mean its timewalking, its a meme. sure a good tnka needs to use defensives properly and vdh is a active leech tank that punishes rotational mistakes more than other tanks (cept bdk) there is no ohno button, everything needs to be used rotationally
you shouldnt have 20% demon spike uptime but the content is a meme so i get it. if you want you can drop a log in actual dungeon content and i can help ya out here OR in the felhammer discord
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I’ll keep this in mind if I ever wind up doing the high content and have issues, as this toon is more kept up to date on gear and the like to do the lesser content/help other out while I actually push on my protadin main (Antiman-Bloodhoof if you want to look him up)
Just as an example, if I am doing 10s on my main, or heroic raiding, I’ll likely cap toons like this at 8s and normal raid, getting heroic raid gear from delves and events like the dungeon and turbulent timeways.
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you dont need to give me your resume, i believe your competent as prot paladin
again even in 8’s like shoot me a log and i can probably find some pain points if you want to improve as vdh. again just dont take poop from anyone in a timewalking dungeon, actual meme content you can solo if you wanted
8 seconds uptime
16-17 cooldown.
50% uptime is probably what you want to aim for.
They should just take a page from Bear Druid and make Demon Spikes a spammable ogcd defensive that stacks like Ironfur.
Lol no wonder the sham was having a horrible time. Asking about spikes screams idk what I’m doing as Veng tank.
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The fact you asked this and then immediately started to respond to every post makes me think it’s probably both of you.
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No I hardly use it either because it’s pointless to press in all content until like mythic+.
This I can see in higher end content, like raids and M+ at my gear level. but in content where things are dying before they provide much of a threat, only way I might get that uptime is if I am blowing it when not fighting anything.
Or Prot paladin where it is the most common resource defensive spender.
This is what I thought.
In general yes, he’s right, you want to maximize DS uptime. DS isn’t enough to mitigate really big hits; use Demon Form or Brand for those. DS should be maximized at all times.
I hate it too, but it is what it is. Until it changes that’s what you need to do if you want to be a good Vengeance DH.
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Fair enough, I just wish some would back off in the easiest content, Complaining about uptime on things like DS in content where even “big hits” barely move the health bar just tends to reek of elitist and, when combined with other factors, promotes an attitude that makes it less likely people will listen.
I tend to ask these kinds of things because I can see the merit in what they say, but the way they said it makes me wonder if they are just a fool going overboard, or someone that thinks even lower content needs to be treated like end game.
It’s probably dead wrong, but I macro’s spikes to my main attack (what is it? Fel cleave?) since spikes has no universal CD. This means it’s up extremely often in fights, as often as it comes off CD in fact, but it also means it will probably be on CD for things like tank busters unless I’m aware it’s coming.
ya i would never macro spikes to anything.
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It’s your $15, play how you want. But for anyone who cares about performance and wants to do anything remotely challenging, never do this.
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I think another option is you can pretty comfortably macro Demon Spikes and Sigil of Flame together if you grab the Illuminated Sigils talent.
I do this as well as macro Infernal Strike into an @cursor macro and viola I got my beloved Flame Crash talent back.
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